Tippit Shooting, 1:15

[Martin Weidmann]

Tippit's body was removed from the scene just after Bowley arrived at 1:10 and he was declared DOA at the hospital at 1:15.

This is interesting Martin...  We know that TF Bowley arrived at 1:10 ( and there's no good reason to doubt that the time is reasonably accurate) And I believe he took a quick look at Tippit who was lying on the street, and then went to use Tippit's radio.  That time could have been anywhere between 1:10 and 1:12...

You say that Tippit's body was removed just after Bowley arrived ....  Is there verification for the time that the ambulance picked up Tippit's body?   It's difficult to believe that the ambulance could have arrived at the hospital at 1:15.   I wonder if the DOA of 1:15 was just a guess ....  Perhaps the ambulance attendants told the doctor that Tippit was dead when they picked him up.

Walt,

Bowley said in his affidavit to the DPD that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit just after he had been on the radio.

The arrival of the ambulance at the hospital (which was not far away) and the DOA time is confirmed by the report of Davenport and Bardin, posted earlier in this thread.

[Martin Weidmann]

See, this is what is confusing to me, is the phrase "AT 1:15pm, pronounced dead" which logically one would read as meaning that the clock time was 1:15pm when Oswald was pronounced DOA.

That means the ambulance must have arrived at 10th and Patton about 3 minutes approx earlier at about 1:12pm which is just about right after Bowley makes a call about 1:10, which somehow gets recorded in the DPD dispatch record as 1:16pm

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

I remember that Brown argued that the ambulance couldn't have been at the hospital at 1:15 because a time stamp card of the funeral home allegedly documented the departure of the ambulance from Jefferson as having taken place at 1:18. The problem with that argument is that nobody has ever been able to produce that time stamp card and the only reference to it being made (as far as I know) is a rather vague statement of a funeral home employee to the HSCA.

There's also another indicator that the ambulance's arrival at the hospital at 1:18 doesn't do Brown any favor. When you trace the fastest route between 10th street and the hospital on North Beckley, on Google map, the estimated drive time is 7 minutes. Had the ambulance arrived at 1:18, it would mean that it must have picked up Tippit - at best - 7 minutes earlier, at 1:11. Obviously, that's a far cry from the ambulance leaving the funeral home at 1:18. On the other hand, it is within a reasonable margin of error (of 3 minutes or so) in the Markham/Bowley/Ambulance/ Davenport scenario.

In any event; let's not forget that Markham saw Tippit being shot prior to the arrival of Bowley (at 1:10) and Bowley saw the ambulance pick up Tippit just after he made his radio call. Combined, this information means that Tippit must have been shot somewhere between 1:06 and 1:10.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt,

Bowley said in his affidavit to the DPD that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit just after he had been on the radio.

The arrival of the ambulance at the hospital (which was not far away) and the DOA time is confirmed by the report of Davenport and Bardin, posted earlier in this thread.

Thank you Martin, ...I was not challenging your statement but my old mind doesn't work as good as it once did. And I had forgotten what Bowley said in his affidavit.

[Walt Cakebread]

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

I remember that Brown argued that the ambulance couldn't have been at the hospital at 1:15 because a time stamp card of the funeral home allegedly documented the departure of the ambulance from Jefferson as having taken place at 1:18. The problem with that argument is that nobody has ever been able to produce that time stamp card and the only reference to it being made (as far as I know) is a rather vague statement of a funeral home employee to the HSCA.

In any event; let's not forget that Markham saw Tippit being shot prior to the arrival of Bowley (at 1:10) and Bowley saw the ambulance pick up Tippit just after he made his radio call. Combined, this information means that Tippit must have been shot somewhere between 1:06 and 1:10.

I believe that it was Sgt Gerald Hill who said that he left the TSBD immediately after he heard the radio report that an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff.....And that report came over the radio just after the shells were found beneath the window.   ( The shells were found at 1:06 )  Hill said that the ambulance carrying Tippit's body passed in front of them as they exited the Houston street viaduct.   I believe that it would have taken less than five minutes to drive from the TSBD to the south side of the viaduct.

[Bill Brown]

See, this is what is confusing to me, is the phrase "AT 1:15pm, pronounced dead" which logically one would read as meaning that the clock time was 1:15pm when Oswald was pronounced DOA.

That means the ambulance must have arrived at 10th and Patton about 3 minutes approx earlier at about 1:12pm which is just about right after Bowley makes a call about 1:10, which somehow gets recorded in the DPD dispatch record as 1:16pm

I maybe mistaken, but I think I remember Bill Brown having a thread many years back, in which Bill suggested the 1:15pm time was the physicians ESTIMATE of the time of death made, and that the actual time of arrival of the ambulance to the hospital emergency room was 1:18pm based on some other record

Or they are simply speaking in terms of rounding to the nearest fifteen minute interval versus being more precise.  Look at the three times mentioned in that offense report... 1:15, 1:30, 3:30.  Do you really believe all three of those events occurred at those exact times instead of the 15 minute rounding up/down?

[Bill Brown]

Correction:  autopsy permit

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Correct, the autopsy permit, not the death certificate... but where does it say what you claimed it says, that Tippit "was DOA at the hospital at 1:15"?  I think you're wrong.

[Martin Weidmann]

Or they are simply speaking in terms of rounding to the nearest fifteen minute interval versus being more precise.  Look at the three times mentioned in that offense report... 1:15, 1:30, 3:30.  Do you really believe all three of those events occurred at exact 15 minute rounding up/down?

Another speculative hit and run.....

Follow that reasoning and you either have Tippit being declared DOA at 1:15 or 1:30......

Hang on, didn't Davenport state in his report that he witnessed that they tried to revive Tippit before declaring him DOA and that at 1:30 a bullet was already being removed from Tippit's body. I guess that rules out 1:30 as DOA time, doesn't it?

[Bill Brown]

My post that you responded to said nothing about the chain of custody of the two Davis shells.

But I have a question for you.  What evidence do you have that the shells known as "the two Davis shells" were ever at the crime scene?

Doughty and Dhority.