Tippit Shooting, 1:15

[John Iacoletti]

You didn’t when you said: “Warren Reynolds ID'd Oswald from 2 blocks away?”
>>> I didn't need to know the exact number of blocks. My automatic reaction to anything you say is permanently steeped in mistrust.

Nice backpedal. Just don’t misrepresent what I say — whether you agree with it or not.

[Bill Chapman]

I don’t know who has done that, but I’ve compiled a list of claims you’ve made up with no evidence to support them (other than your legendary “common sense”).

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,99.0.html

Actually, Walter is right about this one, except light hitting a white surface in shadow will appear purple, not blue:

WF29: The ticket booth is not in the sunlight.....it is in the shade, therefore it appears blue

[Walt Cakebread]

Actually, Walter is right about this one, except light hitting a white surface in shadow will appear purple, not blue:

WF29: The ticket booth is not in the sunlight.....it is in the shade, therefore it appears blue

Doesn't it depend on the film in the camera?

[Martin Weidmann]

Still not one serious attempt by an LNr to deal with the combined information below and provide even a weak argument to counter it.

Let's give it one more try;

Can anybody come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop on Jefferson at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. But even if she left home later than she said, how would she be able to see Tippit being shot at 1:14 or 1:15 when she was catching her regular bus to work on Jefferson at that same time? In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

If one argues that Markham saw Tippit being killed at 1:14 or 1:15 it inescapebly means that Bowley's arrival at 10th/Patton also needs to be pushed back to - at the earliest - 1:17 or 1:18. This in turn would not only mean that he left his daughter waiting for him at school for some time, which is a foolish notion by itself, but it also does not square with his alleged radio call at 1:16 or the arrival of the ambulance shortly after he made that radio call.

Bowley also said in his affidavit that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit's body just after his radio call (which he made within a minute or so after arriving on the scene). Hospital records show that Tippit was declared DOA at 1:15 at Methodist Hospital, on North Beckley, about 1,5 miles from the scene of the crime. DPD officer Davenport says in his report that, while en route, he saw and followed the ambulance to the hospital where he witnessed Tippit being declared dead at 1:15.

Markham's and Bowley's timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps somebody can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.

Also, does anybody care to explain how this evidence relates to the DPD dispatcher's time calls from clocks which, according to Bowles, could be two minutes ahead or behind "official time" (whatever that means) and recorded on voice actived devices?

I bet you, not one LN is going to be willing or able to honestly discuss this timeline.

[Bill Chapman]

Nice backpedal. Just don’t misrepresent what I say — whether you agree with it or not.

How about you not misrepresent a one-block distance as being two blocks, cheater...

[Alan Hardaker]

Still not one serious attempt by an LNr to deal with the combined information below and provide even a weak argument to counter it.

Let's give it one more try;

Can anybody come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop on Jefferson at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. But even if she left home later than she said, how would she be able to see Tippit being shot at 1:14 or 1:15 when she was catching her regular bus to work on Jefferson at that same time? In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

If one argues that Markham saw Tippit being killed at 1:14 or 1:15 it inescapebly means that Bowley's arrival at 10th/Patton also needs to be pushed back to - at the earliest - 1:17 or 1:18. This in turn would not only mean that he left his daughter waiting for him at school for some time, which is a foolish notion by itself, but it also does not square with his alleged radio call at 1:16 or the arrival of the ambulance shortly after he made that radio call.

Bowley also said in his affidavit that he saw the ambulance arrive and pick up Tippit's body just after his radio call (which he made within a minute or so after arriving on the scene). Hospital records show that Tippit was declared DOA at 1:15 at Methodist Hospital, on North Beckley, about 1,5 miles from the scene of the crime. DPD officer Davenport says in his report that, while en route, he saw and followed the ambulance to the hospital where he witnessed Tippit being declared dead at 1:15.

Markham's and Bowley's timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps somebody can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.

Also, does anybody care to explain how this evidence relates to the DPD dispatcher's time calls from clocks which, according to Bowles, could be two minutes ahead or behind "official time" (whatever that means) and recorded on voice actived devices?

I bet you, not one LN is going to be willing or able to honestly discuss this timeline.

You do not know the exact time that Oswald starts his journey.You do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at. Therefore you cannot make any statements that in any way say Oswald couldn't be at the crime scene in the timeframe. Markham could be at her position at about 1-06  to catch the 1.12 bus. And Oswald could've been at the crime scene at 1-08 or slightly later. Numerous witnesses I'd Oswald as being at the scene. You can't say he wasn't there.You can only guess as you do not know how long it took Oswald to travel to the crime scene. And how can I discuss the timeline as you do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at.

I say he did have time to get from his rooming house to get to the crime scene. And nobody can prove he didn't have time.

[Walt Cakebread]

You do not know the exact time that Oswald starts his journey.You do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at. Therefore you cannot make any statements that in any way say Oswald couldn't be at the crime scene in the timeframe. Markham could be at her position at about 1-06  to catch the 1.12 bus. And Oswald could've been at the crime scene at 1-08 or slightly later. Numerous witnesses I'd Oswald as being at the scene. You can't say he wasn't there.You can only guess as you do not know how long it took Oswald to travel to the crime scene. And how can I discuss the timeline as you do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at.

I say he did have time to get from his rooming house to get to the crime scene. And nobody can prove he didn't have time.

I say he did have time to get from his rooming house to get to the crime scene. And nobody can prove he didn't have time.

His Landlady (Mrs Roberts) at 1026 N. Beckley said that she saw Lee standing on the side walk in front of the rooming house at about 1:04.  ( Mrs Roberts said that Lee arrived at 1:00 pm and the WC confirmed that time of arrival. Mrs Roberts said that lee was in his room several minutes and then departed. ( Time about 1:04)  Mrs Markham said that she saw the man who shot Tippit walking east on 10th street a couple of minutes before she witnessed the man shoot Tippit at 1:06.

These are FACTS Mr Hardaker.....  And here's another Fact....

The witnesses said that Tippit's killer walked away while unloading his revolver ONE SHELL AT A TIME....

The Smith and Wesson revolver is not unloaded ONE SHELL AT A TIME..... The S&W is unloaded by swinging thw cylinder out of the frame ans unloading all six chambers AT ONCE.....  Tippits killer was NOT using a S&W revolver.    The revolver that allegedly was taken from Lee at the Theater was a Smith & Wesson.....

Deal with reality Mr Hardaker.....







 

 

[Martin Weidmann]

You do not know the exact time that Oswald starts his journey.You do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at. Therefore you cannot make any statements that in any way say Oswald couldn't be at the crime scene in the timeframe. Markham could be at her position at about 1-06  to catch the 1.12 bus. And Oswald could've been at the crime scene at 1-08 or slightly later. Numerous witnesses I'd Oswald as being at the scene. You can't say he wasn't there. You can only guess as you do not know how long it took Oswald to travel to the crime scene. And how can I discuss the timeline as you do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at.

I say he did have time to get from his rooming house to get to the crime scene. And nobody can prove he didn't have time.

So, all you are really interested in is keeping Oswald inside the timeframe, regardless of facts or reason?

You do not know the exact time that Oswald starts his journey.You do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at.

True, but I think I can safely say that it wasn't at super sonic speed or the speed of sound, just in case you ever want to go there.

Therefore you cannot make any statements that in any way say Oswald couldn't be at the crime scene in the timeframe.

Get your fact straight. I did not say that Oswald couldn't be there. I actually said; "which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there". There is a difference!

But I'll answer your misguided comment anyway, with some facts (you know what they are, right?). The actual distance between the two locations requires a certain minimal amount of walking time at a normal human walking pace. Gary Mack once did a trial (it's on Youtube), and concluded that the fastest route required a minimum of 11 minutes. So, if Tippit, as the combined timeline in my previous post suggests, was indeed killed before 1.10, Oswald would have had to have left the roominghouse at the latest, at around 12:58, which is - if Earlene Roberts is to be believed - impossible as she said Oswald walked in just before the 1 o'clock news came on the television. So, yeah, even if I didn't, I could indeed make that statement. You may not like it, but there it is, nevertheless!

Markham could be at her position at about 1-06  to catch the 1.12 bus.

Indeed, and that's exactly what my argument is, except she said she normally catched the bus at 1.15. But go from there and everything else in the timeline I provided falls into place. Once we agree that Tippit was most likely killed before 1:10 we can start discussing who could have been there at that time or not!

And Oswald could've been at the crime scene at 1-08 or slightly later.

With a minimal walking time of 11 minutes and not leaving the roominghouse until after the 1 o'clock news came on? No, he couldn't!

But that's just my opinion. Why don't you provide your argument that shows that Oswald could have been at 10th/Patton at 1.08 or slightly later? Can you do that?

Numerous witnesses I'd Oswald as being at the scene.

At an unfair biased line up and under massive police pressure and media exposure? Any law enforcement officer will tell you that witness testimony is the least reliable type of evidence. And very often witness testimony is proven wrong when it is established that a suspect could not have been at the crime scene at the time of the crime. The circular argument of "Oswald was there because Oswald was there" doesn't fly. It's not a logical fallacy for nothing!

None of the Tippit witnesses have ever been cross-examined under oath. Had they have been, they would IMO have been completely destroyed by a competent defense lawyer. Yet, you are so fair and balanced  that you take their words as gospel. Why is that?

Can't you stand the idea of possibly being wrong? Mark Twain once said; "It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled". Does that perhaps apply to you as well?

You can't say he wasn't there.

I didn't say he wasn't (although I do indeed believe it is likely that he wasn't). I said it's nearly impossible for him to be have been there if Tippit was indeed killed before 1:10.

You can only guess as you do not know how long it took Oswald to travel to the crime scene.

No guess work needed as (1) Gary Mack's time trial showed a minimum of 11 minutes required and (2) I walked the distance myself several times. No matter how much you argue, you will never convince me that Oswald could have walked the distance in under 11 minutes!

And how can I discuss the timeline as you do not know at what speed Oswald was travelling at.

The timeline I provided in my previous post has actually very little to do with Oswald. It has to do with the most likely time Tippit was actually killed, which you have not addressed at all. All you seem to be concerned with is getting Oswald at the scene on time to be there to do the deed. What's next; are you going to argue he flew there?

I say he did have time to get from his rooming house to get to the crime scene. And nobody can prove he didn't have time.

So, this is the the classic "I'm right unless you can prove me wrong" LN fallacy again, is it? If you are so sure Oswald did in fact have the time to get from the rooming house to the crime scene, why don't you just shut me up by providing a plausible argument to support your position?