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Author Topic: Tippit Shooting, 1:15  (Read 110592 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #536 on: November 19, 2019, 10:18:17 PM »
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???

Oswald used this gun?
Read it one more time s-l-o-w-ley .......  Loading and unloading a Smith&Wesson .38 for Dummies----- and quit digging your backside :D

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #536 on: November 19, 2019, 10:18:17 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #537 on: November 19, 2019, 10:41:32 PM »
Says “John Mytton” to “Richard Smith”.

Indeed.

I wonder where "Vincent Baxter" went.


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #538 on: November 20, 2019, 01:04:13 AM »
But Cortland Cunningham said that that is NOT the way the spent shells are removed from the 38 caliber Smith & Wesson.

Actually those are your words, not Cunningham's. Here is what he said:

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been re-chambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.


1. Eisenberg asked Cunningham how he would eject the five expended shells. [There are other ways that also work.]

2. Cunningham did say that these are very difficult, by the way, to extract. [Using Cunningham's method, the reason that he says it is very difficult [requires extraordinary force] is: "due to the fact that the chamber has been re-chambered. And you get "a little ballooning"...]

3. Another (perfectly reasonable, given the circumstances) method that LHO might have chosen to use is to extract them one at a time. This would be particularly indicative of someone who had had limited experience/instruction with a revolver. Remember that LHO's pistol training in the USMC was with their standard issue Colt .45 automatic pistol.

I used to own a S&W .38 special revolver. So I fully understand how it works. And it was not unusual for me to extract the spent shells one at a time (especially when I first started using it).

And your stated conclusion that it had to be a different type of gun because of the one-at-a-time-extraction allegation just doesn't make any sense.


Oh, I'm so happy that you attempted to rebut and discredit my observations.....

But Cortland Cunningham said that that is NOT the way the spent shells are removed from the 38 caliber Smith & Wesson.

Actually those are your words, not Cunningham's. Here is what he said:

Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Cunningham, would you show how you would eject the five expended shells?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. yes. These are very difficult, by the way, to extract, due to the fact that the chamber has been re-chambered. And as you can see, you get on your cartridge cases a little ballooning with these smaller diameter cases in the .38 Special.


Yes, those are my words ....But they could be Cunningham's because they are simply a different way of stating that the S&W revolver is NOT UNLOADED ONE SPENT SHELL AT A TIME.   IOW..I have NOT changed the meaning of Cunningham's words.   He said that the spent shells in the chambers of the cylinder of the S&W  are all ejected at the same time by operating the ejector rod.  AND Cunningham said that the spent shells are very difficult to remove from the S&W in evidence.

1. Eisenberg asked Cunningham how he would eject the five expended shells. [There are other ways that also work.]


Now it is YOU who is reading something into Eisenberg's question that was never implied....  Eisenberg simply asked Cunningham how he would eject the five expended shells....  And yes there are other ways of removing spent shells from a S&W.... but all of them are not as simple as using the shell extractor. and the other methods require tools....  Tippit's killer was not reported to have been using any tool to remove the spent shells.

3. Another (perfectly reasonable, given the circumstances) method that LHO might have chosen to use is to extract them one at a time. This would be particularly indicative of someone who had had limited experience/instruction with a revolver. Remember that LHO's pistol training in the USMC was with their standard issue Colt .45 automatic pistol.


This silly idea is not reasonable ....Primarily because on on hand you want attribute to Lee Oswald experience that only an expert with a particular gun could have....  Namely the deadly accuracy that the gunman exhibited when he shot Tippit.....While on the other hand you want to suggest that Lee Oswald had "limited experience"
with a revolver.   And citing his Marine Corp training with a Colt 45 Automatic is totally irrelevant.

I used to own a S&W .38 special revolver. So I fully understand how it works. And it was not unusual for me to extract the spent shells one at a time (especially when I first started using it).

The S&W 38 special is NOT the same gun being discussed by Cunningham..... The 38 S&W revolver in question was called A Victory Model....And the chambers were bigger diameter than the .38 Special ..... This is the reason the .38 Special ammo BALLOONED  in the chamber and made the spent .38 special cartridges "Very difficult to remove"
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 01:21:49 AM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #538 on: November 20, 2019, 01:04:13 AM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #539 on: November 20, 2019, 01:16:00 AM »
Read it one more time s-l-o-w-ley .......  Loading and unloading a Smith&Wesson .38 for Dummies----- and quit digging your backside :D

It's finally becoming clear to the LNer's that Tippit's killer was NOT using a S&W .....And therefore Mr Organ posted a simple ( and totally inaccurate) picture of a S&W revolver.   The picture has no shell extractor.....   Simple minds like simple pictures.....

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #540 on: November 20, 2019, 01:40:37 AM »
Mr. BENAVIDES - Later on that evening, about 4 o'clock, there was two officers came by and asked for me, Mr. Callaway asked me---I had told them that I had seen the officer, and the reporters were there and I was trying to hide from the reporters because they will just bother you all the time.
Then I found out that they thought this was the guy that killed the President. At the time I didn't know the President was dead or he had been shot.
I was just trying to hide from the reporters and everything, and these two officers came around and asked me if I'd seen him, and I told him yes, and told them what I had seen, and they asked me if I could identify him, and I said I don't think I could. At this time I was sure, I wasn't sure that I could or not. I wasn't going to say I could identify and go down and couldn't have.
Mr. BELIN - Did he ever take you to the police station and ask you if you could identify him?
Mr. BENAVIDES - No; they didn't.

Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.


JohnM

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #540 on: November 20, 2019, 01:40:37 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #541 on: November 20, 2019, 01:51:46 AM »
There must have been a crapload of prints on those shell casings when Oswald loaded the gun, right? So where are they?

Up until recently the chances of taking prints off a spent shell was practically impossible but the bullet recovered from within the rifle could have a print that is if Oswald wasn't wearing gloves or he didn't smear the print.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5421537/Scientists-lift-fingerprints-fired-bullets.html

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/03/fingerprints.bullets

JohnM

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #542 on: November 20, 2019, 02:13:35 AM »
Read it one more time s-l-o-w-ley .......  Loading and unloading a Smith&Wesson .38 for Dummies----- and quit digging your backside :D

Sticks & stones. And that whoosh you just heard is my sarcasm zooming over your head.

In the meantime, tell us us why you would show a video of a factory S&M rather than a reconstuction demo of the Smith, Wesson (.. and Lee) weapon, along with all its attendant quirks as described by Cunningham.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 08:05:33 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #543 on: November 20, 2019, 04:51:10 AM »
Mr. BELIN - You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald?
Mr. BENAVIDES - From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald.


That’s not a valid positive ID, but nice try.

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #543 on: November 20, 2019, 04:51:10 AM »