56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.

[Vincent Baxter]

"..already proven possible..because it happened". Not very scientific or logical of you to see no need for a re-enactment, and don't call me Shirley.

What the laser experiment demonstrates to you is that at the moment that JFK was struck by the MB it could not have taken a straight line path into JFK's back and out his throat if the shot came from the 6th floor of the TSBD. Otherwise, conduct the experiment yourself and prove me wrong. Don't just tell me I'm wrong because you don't understand the experiment.

Given the angle of the MB thru JFK, its only valid trajectory was from the 2nd floor of the Dal-Tex building. You asked.

Why are you so convinced that nobody on here understands the concept of your experiment? I do understand it but, as stated elsewhere on this topic thread, it's impossible to re-enact a once in infinity occurrence.

Assuming that you did get President Kennedy's posture correct, your laser experiment then presumes that absolutely nothing interfered with the bullet's trajectory from the moment the shot was fired until the bullet exited the President's throat. A laser cannot measure the exact angle the bullet left the rifle, the conditions in Dealey Plaza that day, how the bullet reacted when ripping through live human muscle and flesh, etc. Even the most unbelievably minuscule slight movement would effect the outcome. The reaction of a live bullet traveling through a live human body cannot be measured by a laser and even shooting a live person through the back of the neck from the same angle wouldn't have the same outcome. It just doesn't work like that.

It already happened, that's it you can't recreate it. You can't ask someone to re-enact something like this.
Conspiracy theorists don't believe two planes flying into the World Trade Centre would cause both towers to collapse but it happened. I suppose you'd ask someone to re-enact that t prove it's possible too?

[Peter Goth]

Why are you so convinced that nobody on here understands the concept of your experiment? I do understand it but, as stated elsewhere on this topic thread, it's impossible to re-enact a once in infinity occurrence.

Assuming that you did get President Kennedy's posture correct, your laser experiment then presumes that absolutely nothing interfered with the bullet's trajectory from the moment the shot was fired until the bullet exited the President's throat. A laser cannot measure the exact angle the bullet left the rifle, the conditions in Dealey Plaza that day, how the bullet reacted when ripping through live human muscle and flesh, etc. Even the most unbelievably minuscule slight movement would effect the outcome. The reaction of a live bullet traveling through a live human body cannot be measured by a laser and even shooting a live person through the back of the neck from the same angle wouldn't have the same outcome. It just doesn't work like that.

It already happened, that's it you can't recreate it. You can't ask someone to re-enact something like this.
Conspiracy theorists don't believe two planes flying into the World Trade Centre would cause both towers to collapse but it happened. I suppose you'd ask someone to re-enact that t prove it's possible too?

  you talk like Mytton.

[Vincent Baxter]

I'm using your LNer criteria to test the MB, which doesn't include any ricochet off JFK's bones. Humes concluded the bullet took a straight line path thru JFK without touching bone. That's why the MB was pristine and showed up on the wrong stretcher. Forget that it smashed thru Connally's bones and according to you, ricocheted off JFK's spine.

What my experiment tells you is that it couldn't have happened the way the WC said it did. Isn't that worth a re-enactment?

Yeah, I was referring to the bullet hitting Connally as well with regards to the human bone, but I realise we're only talking about it's movement until it exit's Kennedy's throat so my bad there.

If a 100% accurate test could be done, then yes, but people can't even agree on the posture or position of JFK at the time of the shooting so how can you accurately do a test?

Am I correct in thinking that not a single person in Dealey Plaza that day testified to saying they believed shots came from the Dal-Tex building? (That is indeed a question not a statement as I can't say for sure)

[Jerry Organ]

Jerry, why aren't you getting this? The set up couldn't be easier or clearer. You just need to understand geometry a little better than you do. You can easily angle the low laser 17 degrees by using a tiny bit of trig to work out the opposite and adjacent sides of the triangle. The opposite side is where you position the high laser and you position it exactly where the red dot from the low laser strikes it. Then you aim the high laser at the low laser so that they have a coincident alignment of their beams. With this the set up is complete.

And yes, you do need 2 lasers to simulate the straight line path thru your body to identify the entrance and exit wounds. You can't do that with a single laser because you need simultaneous red dots on your body estimating the MB wounds. You certainly can't take one photo, move the laser and take another photo and expect your body to be in the exact same position as the 1st photo. Comprende?

I didn't say to have a model in the picture before ensuring there appeared a 17-degree beam angle in the picture. You start doing model shots with a site-fixed camera AFTER the beam angle is set. Preferably having someone on the camera directing the model. Someone aware of Kennedy's actual position in the motorcade.

When you find a solution that works fine, note your body position and compare that to JFK's. If you think you have a match then post the results and make me eat crow.

Great. When are we going to see your laser-experiment photos to compare your body position to JFK's?

2 leveling lasers cost me $35 bucks, I found an old protractor from grade school (even though you can use trig instead), I used a camera tripod on a table for the high laser and it took me about 10 minutes to set the whole thing up. And after many minutes of work, I just couldn't make the MB work for me. Maybe you will have better luck. As for JFK, he must have had a grossly disfigured spine or he was bent over so far he could kiss his own ass goodbye.

This represents "a grossly disfigured spine" and/or Olympic-style contortion?

We can poo-poo each other's graphics until the cows come home, and rightly so, but you can't effectively argue against a re-enactment with a surrogate based on valid geometry. EOS.

No one's disputing the ability to construct a 17-degree laser beam and take a picture of someone sitting in its path. When we now need to do is see how close your body position is to Kennedy's in the motorcade. If off, we can declare your own personal experiment, rather than the MB, a failure. What you're doing is declaring the MB a failure based on a personal experiment that hasn't been vetted.

[Vincent Baxter]

you talk like Mytton.

Yes, you've said that before, Goth.
Yet another fascinating insight and contribution to the discussion from yourself.

Do enlighten us with your method of re-enacting a completely authentic and accurate test of the shot, or are you just going to leave us all with your usual contribution of your infinite wisdom of "you talk like Mytton"?

[John Iacoletti]

Surely, it's already been proven to be possible as that's what happened on 22nd November, 1963 so there's no need for a re-enactment.

Circular argument (n.): see circular argument

[Martin Weidmann]

Surely, it's already been proven to be possible as that's what happened on 22nd November, 1963 so there's no need for a re-enactment.

Circular argument (n.): see circular argument

Not only that, but also a contradiction, when one considers this is what he said next...

You can't re-enact this with levelling lasers that cost you $35 bucks. You can't re-enact it by shooting real bullets through ram's heads or silicon wrapped in animal skin. The shot, the bullet, the rifle, the angle, the reaction of the live human body muscles as the bullet makes contact, the ricochet off human bone, etc. make the shot truly unique and totally impossible to re-enact.
No matter how many times you do it, no matter whether you shoot at a living person or synthetic you WILL NOT get an accurate or identical outcome so why bother to argue that it didn't happen?

How in the world can Baxter argue that the shot has been proven, when next he says that it's impossible to re-enact the shot?

It's classic LN crap again; "I say the shot happened that way and since you can not prove it didn't happen, I win by default" Pathetic!

[Jack Trojan]

I didn't say to have a model in the picture before ensuring there appeared a 17-degree beam angle in the picture. You start doing model shots with a site-fixed camera AFTER the beam angle is set. Preferably having someone on the camera directing the model. Someone aware of Kennedy's actual position in the motorcade.

Now you're getting it.

Great. When are we going to see your laser-experiment photos to compare your body position to JFK's?

You would never believe my photos were legit. This exp is for you to corroborate or refute your own graphics.

This represents "a grossly disfigured spine" and/or Olympic-style contortion?

No, but it also doesn't represent a solution either. Unless you are a photogrammetrist applying a physics engine (CAD s/w), graphics can never give you the answer because at best they are a 3D projection on a 2D medium (screen). However, you can't fake a real surrogate.

No one's disputing the ability to construct a 17-degree laser beam and take a picture of someone sitting in its path. When we now need to do is see how close your body position is to Kennedy's in the motorcade. If off, we can declare your own personal experiment, rather than the MB, a failure. What you're doing is declaring the MB a failure based on a personal experiment that hasn't been vetted.

I'm not declaring anything. I only proffer that this experiment is a means for you LNers to put your money where your mouth is and prove that the MB was possible. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it was impossible, but if it prevents you from posting your graphics that don't tell us anything useful and certainly don't prove your point, then it will have been worth it.