56 years later and still the WC apologists deny the conspiracy.

[Michael Walton]

Based on these particular photos, and with the stand-in more upright than Kennedy, ...

Bullet enters base of the back of "Kennedy's" neck (mark on jacket).

Goes downward to exit at level of tie knot.

Cue Cakebread to point out the car, stand-ins and where car is currently stopped are not the same as those on the day of the assassination.

Uh, no, Jerry. That's not what they're doing here. They knew where the wounds were because they were well informed, having seen the autopsy photos. They have the mark on the upper back EXACTLY as seen in Bethesda. Here, see how nice I am - I put this together for you:



And because there is no report at all of any rear neck wound as marked in the area above the upper back wound in that reenactment photo, this clearly is showing where that wound was if it was simply moved around to the front of the throat.

So I ask you [and others again] - how can a bullet shot from high up heading downward hit that upper back area and exit ABOVE and out of the neck? It's not plausible, Jerry, and goes against any and all things that happen in real life.

'Night, John Boy
'Night, Mary Ellen

[Bill Chapman]

Uh, no, Bill. It doesn't. What does make a difference are the markings on the stand-in's backside there. Explain how a bullet heading downward would exit *above* on the other side like the marks show. That's an official reenactment (your heroes) you see there, Bill, and they're going by the autopsy findings, also official.

I agree with the overlay you provided
It comports (roughly) with 14x14cm

I don't see the Kennedy vehicle
I don't see the JFK/JBC stand-ins seated properly

What I see is a shabby reenactment
What I see is the top marking having Kennedy spitting chicklets upon exit

EDIT 1:48 EST

[Michael Walton]

I don't see any markings on anyone's backside
I don't see the Kennedy vehicle
I don't see the JFK/JBC stand-ins seated properly

What I see is a shabby reenactment
What I see is the top marking having Kennedy spitting chicklets upon exit

Sure, Bill, sure. So what you're basically saying here is the US government's investigation of the murdered president was "shabby," right?

FINALLY - some truth from the Oswald Did It crowd!

 

[Jerry Organ]

Uh, no, Jerry. That's not what they're doing here. They knew where the wounds were because they were well informed, having seen the autopsy photos. They have the mark on the upper back EXACTLY as seen in Bethesda. Here, see how nice I am - I put this together for you:



And because there is no report at all of any rear neck wound as marked in the area above the upper back wound in that reenactment photo, this clearly is showing where that wound was if it was simply moved around to the front of the throat.

First you claim about the re-enactment photo: "The marks on the back are based on the measurements from the official autopsy and all are very accurate." Now you say "there is no report at all of any rear neck wound as marked in the area above the upper back wound in that reenactment photo".

We're trying to follow what you say but you throw out contradictions and now you've added an autopsy picture.

So I ask you [and others again] - how can a bullet shot from high up heading downward hit that upper back area and exit ABOVE and out of the neck?

'Night, John Boy
'Night, Mary Ellen

Now you're talking about the autopsy photo (I guess). Have you allowed for the back surface in the autopsy photo being photographed at a much more oblique angle than the re-enactment photo was taken at? A reasonable person wouldn't just take an autopsy photo and slap it onto some other photo without determining if the camera angles were similar.

It's not plausible, Jerry, and goes against any and all things that happen in real life.

That an autopsy photo was taken at a different camera angle than a motorcade photo seems a "real life" consideration. That Kennedy's posture in the motorcade was different than "perfect posture" seems a legitimate reflection of "real life".

[Bill Chapman]

Sure, Bill, sure. So what you're basically saying here is the US government's investigation of the murdered president was "shabby," right?

FINALLY - some truth from the Oswald Did It crowd!

 

I don't agree with the methodology of this particular reenactment. You're the one presenting a reenactment, that is missing the proper ingredients, as the be-all and end-all of official government findings.

The jump seat makes all the difference whether you like it or not.

EDIT: 2:00pm EST

[Jerry Organ]

Are you really that obtuse? You literally didn't understand my post? I must have posted the 2 laser challenge a dozen times on this forum and you never understood what I was getting at? Your problem is that you didn't realize the graphic was to show you how to do the experiment, not the experiment itself. Otherwise, CGI can't prove anything because it can defy logic and physics. You need reality.

Skip the CGI and put yourself in any position you like in the 2 laser scenario but actually do a physical re-enactment for a change. The lasers represent a straight line path thru JFK, not the trajectory of the MB from the SN. And remember, you can't fake real!

Now go out there and buy a couple of cheap leveling lasers and a protractor and do the goddamned experiment for yourself, then post your results and make me eat crow.

Your "high-tech" laser test will always produce false positives.



Reasonable person with a legitimate interest in the truth of the case don't want to be misled by magician tricks from conspiracy loons with set-agendas.

[Jack Trojan]

I don't agree with the methodology of this particular reenactment. You're the one presenting a reenactment, that is missing the proper ingredients, as the be-all and end-all of official government findings.

The jump seat makes all the difference whether you like it or not.

EDIT: 2:00pm EST

How did the jump seat affect the MB bullet path thru JFK? If it can be shown that the trajectory of the MB thru JFK does not match the trajectory from the 6th floor of the TSBD, then Houston, we have a problem (smoking gun), which all you LNers conveniently ignore, for obvious reasons.

We're through the looking glass here. This comes down to basic geometry and proof that Oswald was not responsible for the MB.

Bump.

The Warren Commission Report attempted to summarize the autopsy:

"The autopsy examination further disclosed that, after entering the President, the bullet passed between two large muscles, produced a contusion on the upper part of the pleural cavity (without penetrating that cavity), bruised the top portion of the right lung and ripped the windpipe (trachea) in its path through the President's neck. The examining surgeons concluded that the wounds were caused by the bullet rather than the tracheotomy performed at Parkland Hospital. The nature of the bruises indicated that the President's heart and lungs were functioning when the bruises were caused, whereas there was very little circulation in the President's body when incisions on the President's chest were made to insert tubes during the tracheotomy."

The takeaway here being that there was no bruising caused by the tracheotomy, which meant that JFK was already dead. So unless JFK was struggling to breath, why perform one? And why not insert the trach tube into the bullet hole instead of creating a ragged mess? Was that standard procedure?

"No bone was struck by the bullet which passed through the President's body. By projecting from a point of entry on the rear of the neck and proceeding at a slight downward angle through the bruised interior portions, the doctors concluded that the bullet exited from the front portion of the President's neck that had been cut away by the tracheotomy."

Looks like the missile passed thru bone to me, T1 to be specific.



I guess they were covering for the intact condition of CE-399 before they were informed it magically created multiple wounds in JFK and Connally, smashing thru at least 3 bones before dropping onto the wrong stretcher without a trace of blood, tissue or bone on it in "swimming pool" condition.

"Concluding that a bullet passed through the President's neck, the doctors at Bethesda Naval Hospital rejected a theory that the bullet lodged in the large muscles in the back of his neck and fell out through the point of entry when external heart massage was applied at Parkland Hospital. In the earlier stages of the autopsy, the surgeons were unable to find a path into any large muscle in the back of the neck. At that time they did not know that there had been a bullet hole in the front of the President's neck when he arrived at Parkland Hospital because the tracheotomy incision had completely eliminated that evidence. While the autopsy was being performed, surgeons learned that a whole bullet had been found at Parkland Hospital on a stretcher which, at that time, was thought to be the stretcher occupied by the President. This led to speculation that the bullet might have penetrated a short distance into the back of the neck and then dropped out onto the stretcher as a result of the external heart massage."

Wherein the Magic Bullet was born. "..dropped out onto the stretcher as a result of the external heart massage". Sure, onto the wrong stretcher. It defies logic to think CE-399 wasn't planted.

"Further exploration during the autopsy disproved that theory. The surgeons determined that the bullet had passed between two large strap muscles and bruised them without leaving any channel, since the bullet merely passed between them. Commander Humes, who believed that a tracheotomy had been performed from his observations at the autopsy, talked by telephone with Dr. Perry early on the morning of November 23, and learned that his assumption was correct and that Dr. Perry had used the missile wound in the neck as the point to make the incision. This confirmed the Bethesda surgeons' conclusion that the bullet had exited from the front part of the neck."

The surgeons' official conclusion was that the magic bullet struck JFK right of center at the T1 vertebrae and exited center of the throat at the C7 vertebrae, without touching bone. However, there are at least 2 things wrong with those assumptions:

1) The missile path could not have avoided the T1 vertebrae (see x-ray above).



2) There wasn't a straight line trajectory from the 6th floor of the TSBD striking JFK's back at T1 and exiting at C7. Given the geometric parameters as established by the WC we have the following scenario:



The ONLY way to support the Magic Bullet Theory is to sit in between 2 lasers pointed at each other at a 17 degree angle and reproduce JFK's back/throat wounds then post the results.



I've been waiting for years now and still no takers.

[Jerry Organ]

How did the jump seat affect the MB bullet path thru JFK? If it can be shown that the trajectory of the MB thru JFK does not match the trajectory from the 6th floor of the TSBD, then Houston, we have a problem (smoking gun), which all you LNers conveniently ignore, for obvious reasons.

We're through the looking glass here. This comes down to basic geometry and proof that Oswald was not responsible for the MB.

Bump.

That's misleading. The bullet exit through the midline (or slightly left of same) at the lower neck at the front. This graphic has the bullet going through the frontal midline of the trachea.



Not missing bone. But thanks for highlighting the air in the missile passage the HSCA consultants said was there.