This is why “FBI said so” is not a good argument

[Thomas Graves]

Then you are a typical LNer that obfuscates when the facts don't fit your pet theory. Ok. And all this time I thought you were a CTer (Coincidence Theorist). Don't you think you need to put down all that Roosky propaganda you've been reading and back away from the Kremlin? I'm starting to worry about you. 

Jack,

That's a suggestion I refuse to accept.

Regardless, it's funny how the "evil, evil, evil" CIA changed from the organization that murdered JFK in 1963 to an organization that arrived at a conclusion in 2017 that you apparently agree with: The GRU hacked DNC's emails and gave them to Julian Assange to distribute at critical points during the campaign in order to subvert Hillary Clinton and, concomitantly, to get Russia-loving Trump "elected," huh?

LOL

--  MWT 

PS  I'm reading too much Russian propaganda?

What the hell are you talking about?

Tennent H. Bagley, Mark Riebling, and Edward J. Epstein aren't Russian. They're patriotic Americans who know a lot about "KGB" active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations, and how the latter went into effect in 1961 -- when Oleg Penkovsky had finally been secretly "cornered like a bear in a cave" in Moscow, and GRU Colonel Dimitri Polyakov at the U.N. in New York City had finally been given the go-ahead to "volunteer" to spy for the FBI and CIA -- and how they (strategic deceptions) were interwoven with good-old (from 1921, on)  active measures to form "inside man/outside man" feedback loops, and ... well ... they really started messing up CIA Counterintelligence and the already messed-up FBI.

Wake up, Neo.

[Jon Banks]

Jack,

Look at where we are today with a Putin-installed president, and look at all the dumbing-down of American society that had to take place for that to happen, and look at all of the tinfoil hat conspiracy theories on several different issues we have had over the past fifty or so years that have contributed to that dumbing down process, and think about how the JFK assassination gave rise to many of those conspiracy theories, and think about how the recent "Ukraine, not Russia, hacked the DNC's emails," propaganda came out of Russia, and read Tennent H. Bagley's  Spy Wars and Mark Reibling's Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA (especially chapter 10 regarding your contention that the Kremlin wouldn't have risked nuclear war to kill JFK), and read Edward J. Epstein's Deception, and watch PBS's Putin's Way, etc, etc, etc, ... and, ... well, ... connect the dots.

--  MWT 

“Putin Installed Trump” is a conspiracy theory.

62 million Americans voted for Trump. There’s no evidence that Russia tampered with vote tallies. It hasn’t been proven that Trump won because of Russia posting silly memes on Social Media.

[Gary Craig]

“Putin Installed Trump” is a conspiracy theory.

62 million Americans voted for Trump. There’s no evidence that Russia tampered with vote tallies. It hasn’t been proven that Trump won because of Russia posting silly memes on Social Media.

The Mueller Report's investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election says Trump obstructed the investigation and would have been prosecuted except for a DOJ rule that prevents prosecution of a sitting president.

Trump is now in the process of being impeached for mis-using his office to compel a foreign government to get involved in the 2020 election in his favor, Obstruction of Congress and Obstruction of Justice among other possible charges.

[Jon Banks]

The Mueller Report's investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 election says Trump obstructed the investigation and would have been prosecuted except for a DOJ rule that prevents prosecution of a sitting president.

Trump is now in the process of being impeached for mis-using his office to compel a foreign government to get involved in the 2020 election in his favor, Obstruction of Congress and Obstruction of Justice among other possible charges.

While all that is true, it’s not true that Trump conspired with Putin or that Russia’s meddling in the election caused Hillary to lose. Mueller found no proof of any conspiracy between Trump and Russian officials. There’s no proof that the election outcome was changed by Russia’s intervention.

I voted for Clinton but have come to accept that she just was too unlikable.

Yes, American voters are idiots and tend to vote for the candidate they’d rather have a Beer with...

[Jack Trojan]

While all that is true, it’s not true that Trump conspired with Putin or that Russia’s meddling in the election caused Hillary to lose. Mueller found no proof of any conspiracy between Trump and Russian officials. There’s no proof that the election outcome was changed by Russia’s intervention.

I voted for Clinton but have come to accept that she just was too unlikable.

Yes, American voters are idiots and tend to vote for the candidate they’d rather have a Beer with...

I disagree with most of what you said since we don't know whether Trump conspired with Putin because Trump obstructed all attempts by Mueller to investigate him. What we didn't realize at the time was that Rosenstein saved Trump by appointing Mueller to head a SC to investigate the Trump campaign. This was a shrewd move by Rosenstein because he could distance himself from the scandal as well as give the investigation the smell of legitimacy. Mueller was unimpeachable. But what we all didn't know was that Rosenstein gave Mueller such a narrow scope and limited powers that there wasn't a hope in hell of resolving any underlying issues, such as conspiracy, etc. Mueller didn't even look at Trump's tax returns or have any of Trump's family testify. Mueller was gelded from the start and the only report he could produce was to document the evidence so Trump could be tried after he leaves office. Then Barr swooped in and dashed any hope the Mueller Report would gain traction. Dead on arrival. TOTAL EXONERATION! NO COLLUSION! NO OBSTRUCTION! A TOTAL NOTHING BURGER.

Trump won by 50,000 votes over the swing states. It's not too much of a stretch to think that chants of "Lock her up!" over her hacked emails might have affected more than enough votes to make a difference. Add some more votes for Pizzagate, Comey's letter, etc. and Bob's your Uncle. Putin has been doing this a long long time and he is the grand-master of propaganda. The American people are not used to being manipulated like they were and bought into it hook line and sinker. Combine that with the general affect the Internet has had on perpetuating propaganda and conspiracies and again, Bob's your Uncle.

Hillary was unlikable because Trump told us she was. She committed the unspeakable crime of sending her pumpkin pie recipe in an email from an ILLEGAL SERVER!!! The bottom line is the GOP were ready to be taken for a ride by a grifter who told them everything they wanted to hear, and a lot they just let slide. It's all about the entertainment factor. To hell with climate change our standing in the World!

 

[Jon Banks]

I disagree with most of what you said since we don't know whether Trump conspired with Putin because Trump obstructed all attempts by Mueller to investigate him. What we didn't realize at the time was that Rosenstein saved Trump by appointing Mueller to head a SC to investigate the Trump campaign. This was a shrewd move by Rosenstein because he could distance himself from the scandal as well as give the investigation the smell of legitimacy. Mueller was unimpeachable. But what we all didn't know was that Rosenstein gave Mueller such a narrow scope and limited powers that there wasn't a hope in hell of resolving any underlying issues, such as conspiracy, etc. Mueller didn't even look at Trump's tax returns or have any of Trump's family testify. Mueller was gelded from the start and the only report he could produce was to document the evidence so Trump could be tried after he leaves office. Then Barr swooped in and dashed any hope the Mueller Report would gain traction. Dead on arrival. TOTAL EXONERATION! NO COLLUSION! NO OBSTRUCTION! A TOTAL NOTHING BURGER.

Trump won by 50,000 votes over the swing states. It's not too much of a stretch to think that chants of "Lock her up!" over her hacked emails might have affected more than enough votes to make a difference. Add some more votes for Pizzagate, Comey's letter, etc. and Bob's your Uncle. Putin has been doing this a long long time and he is the grand-master of propaganda. The American people are not used to being manipulated like they were and bought into it hook line and sinker. Combine that with the general affect the Internet has had on perpetuating propaganda and conspiracies and again, Bob's your Uncle.

Hillary was unlikable because Trump told us she was. She committed the unspeakable crime of sending her pumpkin pie recipe in an email from an ILLEGAL SERVER!!! The bottom line is the GOP were ready to be taken for a ride by a grifter who told them everything they wanted to hear, and a lot they just let slide. It's all about the entertainment factor. To hell with climate change our standing in the World!

The FBI investigated Trump’s campaign in 2016. They concluded that he wasn’t working with the Russians long before Mueller was appointed.

NYT article from October 2016:

“Investigating Donald Trump, F.B.I. Sees No Clear Link to Russia”

Oct. 31, 2016
WASHINGTON — For much of the summer, the F.B.I. pursued a widening investigation into a Russian role in the American presidential campaign. Agents scrutinized advisers close to Donald J. Trump, looked for financial connections with Russian financial figures, searched for those involved in hacking the computers of Democrats, and even chased a lead — which they ultimately came to doubt — about a possible secret channel of email communication from the Trump Organization to a Russian bank.

Law enforcement officials say that none of the investigations so far have found any conclusive or direct link between Mr. Trump and the Russian government. And even the hacking into Democratic emails, F.B.I. and intelligence officials now believe, was aimed at disrupting the presidential election rather than electing Mr. Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/us/politics/fbi-russia-election-donald-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

The FBI went as far as using surveillance and undercover agents to investigate Trump’s campaign. Despite all that, they found nothing linking Trump to Russian officials.

NYT article from May 2019:

“F.B.I. Sent Investigator Posing as Assistant to Meet With Trump Aide in 2016”

May 2, 2019
WASHINGTON — The conversation at a London bar in September 2016 took a strange turn when the woman sitting across from George Papadopoulos, a Trump campaign adviser, asked a direct question: Was the Trump campaign working with Russia?

The woman had set up the meeting to discuss foreign policy issues. But she was actually a government investigator posing as a research assistant, according to people familiar with the operation. The F.B.I. sent her to London as part of the counterintelligence inquiry opened that summer to better understand the Trump campaign’s links to Russia.

The American government’s affiliation with the woman, who said her name was Azra Turk, is one previously unreported detail of an operation that has become a political flash point in the face of accusations by President Trump and his allies that American law enforcement and intelligence officials spied on his campaign to undermine his electoral chances. Last year, he called it Spygate.

The decision to use Ms. Turk in the operation aimed at a presidential campaign official shows the level of alarm inside the F.B.I. during a frantic period when the bureau was trying to determine the scope of Russia’s attempts to disrupt the 2016 election, but could also give ammunition to Mr. Trump and his allies for their spying claims.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/us/politics/fbi-government-investigator-trump.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

[Thomas Graves]

“Putin Installed Trump” is a conspiracy theory.

62 million Americans voted for Trump. There’s no evidence that Russia tampered with vote tallies. It hasn’t been proven that Trump won because of Russia posting silly memes on Social Media.

Silly memes that brought at least one pro-Trump demonstration into close proximity with an anti-Trump demonstration?

(Or am I confusing that with Charlottesville?)

--  MWT