The real Jack Ruby

[Ted Shields]

Sir, your study, from the 1980s - later time period, reflecting medical advances of 20 years - also does not cover point blank - maybe even contact, since the film of the shooting shows a flash maybe six inches? from Oswalds belly - wounds.
Therefore, that study does not apply to the Oswald gunshot wound situation.
That's all I'm saying.

Heres a study from July 1968 through June 1973, 277 abdominal gunshot wounds, the overall fatality of which was 10%.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/581966

Since the invention of the gun, the survival rate has been very high. The fact that its point blank range would obviously increase the chance of death but not by an acceptable margin to the point where it would instantly render the victim unconscious, never to wake up.

I would be happy to see more stats on point blank/contact/gsw survival rates; unfortunately, I can't seem to find any.
Also, I will again point out Ruby's lying about his early Friday (5 to 6 p.m.) visit to DPD- sourced from Warren Commission. Why?

Because it shows Sunday was premeditated and thats a guaranteed death sentence.

Ruby didn't think he would do any time in jail until he was properly charged.

Lets go with the conspiracy for a minute - why did nobody take out Ruby after he took out Oswald?

[John Tonkovich]

Heres a study from July 1968 through June 1973, 277 abdominal gunshot wounds, the overall fatality of which was 10%.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamasurgery/article-abstract/581966

Since the invention of the gun, the survival rate has been very high. The fact that its point blank range would obviously increase the chance of death but not by an acceptable margin to the point where it would instantly render the victim unconscious, never to wake up.

Because it shows Sunday was premeditated and thats a guaranteed death sentence.

Ruby didn't think he would do any time in jail until he was properly charged.

Lets go with the conspiracy for a minute - why did nobody take out Ruby after he took out Oswald?

I don't do "conspiracy ".
I'm just looking for facts.
"Ruby didn't think he would do any jail time..".  Not sure how this can be proven?

Facts: Ruby's criminal history and mob connections were downplayed and omitted from the Warren Report.
            Including arrest (but no conviction) for drug running. ( New Mexico in the late'50s)
            Including suspicion of gunrunning to Cuba in the late 50s.
            Including visits to imprisoned gangsters in post Castro Cuba.
           
Now, Ruby may have just been a nutcase, hopped up on diet pills, who decided to be a hero. However, Ruby's history shows his primary motivations in life were fear and greed.

Aside: Harry Olsen  and Ruby is another topic not addressed by the WC.  Why?

[Mike Orr]

Jack Ruby knew that if he was to kill Oswald , up close , then he was going to be taken down at that moment . With Ruby's ties to the Mafia , he was going to do what he was told to do by the Mob . Too many people try to make Ruby out to just being a small time hood for the mob . The Kennedy's , especially Bobby was going after the mob and of course JFK was going to bring Vietnam to a slow halt which the Military heads did not want . Our Military Upper crust wants to go to war every chance they get ! As crusty as LBJ was , it seems like the weight of our kids dying in Vietnam put too much of a weight on LBJ and I think it took its toll on the President . When Ruby said the only way to get the message out about What happened to JFK in Dallas was to get him to Washington D.C. so he could talk ! I think it was just as dangerous for Ruby in D.C. as well in Dallas . What did Ruby tell Dorothy Killgallen that cost Dorothy her life . Just Coincidental ! I don't think so !

[Jerry Freeman]

Did you [Mr Shields] read my thread 'Jack Ruby and Seth Kantor at Parkland'?
 https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2334.0.html
Does it not seem strange that the Warren Commission wound up taking Ruby's word that he was not at Parkland that Friday afternoon over two witnesses who testified that he was? These being people who had no apparent motive to lie.
We must admit that Jack Ruby was a shady character with a very questionable background. Would he have had a reason to lie and would the Commission have had a reason to accept his word?

I see that you did reply in that thread and believe in the complete truthfulness of Jack Ruby.

[Ted Shields]

I reviewed that testimony... 
Mr Shields wrote earlier.....So, no there was no particular 'LINE' that Ruby waited in.

Ruby had no idea how long the people/person in front of him would be. Could've been 1 minute, could've been 10 minutes.

I have suggested before and still do that Jack Ruby was not waiting for Oswald's transfer but rather the transfer was waiting for Ruby.

Theres no evidence whatsoever to support this as even a fringe theory unfortunately. Ruby was in the WU at 11.17 (timestamped). He shot Oswald at 11.21.

Oswald was supposed to be moved at about 10.15am at the latest. Ruby was still at home then and had not even received the phone call from Little Lynn asking for money at that stage.

There was a delay of more than an hour when Chief Postal Inspector Harry Holmes arrived at 10am and to ask Oswald about his use of post office boxes.

Now even if somehow this was part of the plan, Ruby had no control over Oswald then asking for a darker sweater to look better in the TV lights. 5-10 minute delay. If he didn't ask for the sweater, the car would've driven up the ramp and away to jail with Ruby still standing in the Western Union. Or maybe still in his car on the way to the western union.

If Ruby was such a high level mobster, what was he doing taking calls from strippers for 25 dollars?! Who calls mobsters asking for that? Get up, drive downtown and send me money please. Certainly not broke strippers.

Every single person who knew Ruby well said its laughable that he could have been part of a conspiracy because he was so talkative.

Who takes out Ruby? Why wasn't he taken out? Mob style in jail, silently, no patsy. They just..... left him alone?!

[Zeon Mason]

There is no benefit for Ruby to risk himself getting shot dead just to take one shot at Oswald with a bullet not enhanced with cyanide or other chemical to ensure Oswalds death

If Ruby is a CIA asset ,on the other hand ,it’s not implausible this was more of LARP assignment with purpose of deflecting suspicion to the Mafia

It was only necessary for Ruby to get one shot off and hit Oswald in the easiest area = center body to complete this LARP while being filmed

After which Oswald is snuffed out in the ambulance by pillow kinda like the late Chief Justice Scalia may have been (coincidentally thereby creating stalemate SCOTUS  of 4 left and 4 right)

Ruby was not tasked with having to use some poison laced bullet so as to avoid potential discovery by autopsy and its doubtful that Ruby would have to agreed to go that far anyway

 Ruby could have been convinced by CIA that his role was simply an act to serve the country, get a new identity and a “clean” slate and a monetary reward to retire in a witness protection program

Ruby was the 2nd patsy in effect .

[Ted Shields]

After which Oswald is snuffed out in the ambulance by pillow kinda like the late Chief Justice Scalia may have been (coincidentally thereby creating stalemate SCOTUS  of 4 left and 4 right)

See this is the bit thats a stretch, to say the least. Are we suggesting that Jim Leavelle murdered Oswald in the back of the ambulance?! Or was willing to do so but Ruby got lucky and killed him first?

Ruby was the 2nd patsy in effect .

Where was the 3rd patsy? The one to take out the 2nd patsy?

There is no benefit for Ruby to risk himself getting shot dead just to take one shot at Oswald with a bullet not enhanced with cyanide or other chemical to ensure Oswalds death

To kill JFK, all they would've needed is for one "patriot" who was "willing to give their life for their country" to shoot JFK at Love Field and then the assassin is killed by one of the Secret Service. Easy. "Oh he shot the president so I shot him". Easy. A conspiracy that requires a handful of people.

Look how easy it would've been.



Actually, at times coming down Main, the car was going so slow, anyone could have jumped into the car and pumped JFKs head full of bullets before any Secret Service had time to react. Why didn't they just do that?

Look how easy it would've been.



Instead we have a conspiracy involving everyone (in Dallas alone) from most of the Dallas police, to the ambulance driver, to the Western Union people, the Paines, Marina, Ruby, the mob, the CIA, the secret service, the coroners, the doctors at Parkland, people planting bullets, removing Mausers and replacing them with Carcanos and so on. Hundreds of people.

[John Iacoletti]

To kill JFK, all they would've needed is for one "patriot" who was "willing to give their life for their country" to shoot JFK at Love Field and then the assassin is killed by one of the Secret Service. Easy.

Good luck finding someone to sign up for that.

Instead we have a conspiracy involving everyone (in Dallas alone) from most of the Dallas police, to the ambulance driver, to the Western Union people, the Paines, Marina, Ruby, the mob, the CIA, the secret service, the coroners, the doctors at Parkland, people planting bullets, removing Mausers and replacing them with Carcanos and so on. Hundreds of people.

We do?  Says who?