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Author Topic: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967  (Read 21209 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2020, 04:31:03 AM »
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Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes; I compared the actual rifle with the photograph, Exhibit 133A, and with the photographs that I prepared from Exhibit 133A, as well as the other simulated photograph and the photograph of the rifle, attempting to establish whether or not it could be determined whether it was or was not the
I found it to be the same general configuration. All appearances were the same. I found no differences. I did not find any really specific peculiarities on which I could base a positive identification to the exclusion of all other rifles of the same general configuration.
I did find one notch in the stock at this point that appears very faintly in the photograph, but it is not sufficient to warrant positive identification.

Oops!

Sergeant KIRK. ...I might add, in all candor, with respect to the FBI, they did not have 133-A DeMohrenschildt. They did not have 133-A Stovall. They did not have 134 or did not recognize 134 as being first generation print.

JohnM

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2020, 04:31:03 AM »


Online Mitch Todd

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2020, 04:40:34 AM »
BS:

We have Cecil Kirk’s scales and moon craters.

Who do you think you’re fooling? You can’t even prove that rifle was sent to that PO Box.

..Mt Iacoletti said, trying to change the subject.

Just to put things back on point, and for reference, I jumped into this based on this exchange between you and Galbraith, where you clipped this bit out of a Galbraith post :

"For example,  the HSCA photographic experts say the rifle in the BYP was the rifle found in the sniper's nest."

then replied:

"This is blatantly false. You don’t help your argument any by spreading misinformation."

To which I pointed out that Steve's statement was, in fact, correct. The HSCA photography panel did conclude that "a comparison of the relative lengths of parts of the alleged assassination rifle that is in the National Archives with corresponding parts of what purports to be that rifle as shown in various photographs taken in 1963 indicates that the dimensions of the rifle(s) depicted are entirely consistent. b. A comparison of identifying marks that exist on the rifle as shown in photographs today with marks shown on the rifle in photographs taken in 1963 indicates both that the rifle in the Archives is the same weapon that Oswald is shown holding in the backyard picture and the same weapon, found by Dallas police, that appears in various postassassination photographs." [HSCA VI PP196]
 
As I've said, if you want to quibble with how or why they got to that conclusion, go ahead. But don't sit there and try to claim that the HSCA panel did anything other than conclude that the CE133* rifle is the same rifle recovered from the TSBD is CE139. That's simply what they said they found. 

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2020, 04:55:16 AM »
Oops!

Sergeant KIRK. ...I might add, in all candor, with respect to the FBI, they did not have 133-A DeMohrenschildt. They did not have 133-A Stovall. They did not have 134 or did not recognize 134 as being first generation print.

Who says they didn’t have 134? It’s a Warren Commission exhibit. Who even made CE134 and where is the negative it was made from?

In all candor, Kirk had no friggin idea what Shaneyfelt looked at.

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2020, 04:55:16 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2020, 05:38:32 AM »
b. A comparison of identifying marks that exist on the rifle as shown in photographs today with marks shown on the rifle in photographs taken in 1963 indicates both that the rifle in the Archives is the same weapon that Oswald is shown holding in the backyard picture and the same weapon, found by Dallas police, that appears in various postassassination photographs." [HSCA VI PP196]

Page 196 doesn’t say anything remotely similar to this. This is on page 66.

But Kirk’s “tips the scales” testimony and the “moon crater” justification on page 106 (with only Kirk’s name on it) belies the claim the this was a conclusion of the entire panel. For other matters, such as opinions on what Zapruder frames indicated bullet strikes, the panel voted, and the report indicated what the vote counts were.

But in the end it doesn’t really matter, because there is no actual analysis provided that shows that the rifle in the CE 133* photos can be uniquely identified and how.
 
As I've said, if you want to quibble with how or why they got to that conclusion, go ahead. But don't sit there and try to claim that the HSCA panel did anything other than conclude that the CE133* rifle is the same rifle recovered from the TSBD is CE139. That's simply what they said they found.
[/quote]

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2020, 08:32:06 AM »
Page 196 doesn’t say anything remotely similar to this. This is on page 66.

But Kirk’s “tips the scales” testimony and the “moon crater” justification on page 106 (with only Kirk’s name on it) belies the claim the this was a conclusion of the entire panel. For other matters, such as opinions on what Zapruder frames indicated bullet strikes, the panel voted, and the report indicated what the vote counts were.

But in the end it doesn’t really matter, because there is no actual analysis provided that shows that the rifle in the CE 133* photos can be uniquely identified and how.
 
As I've said, if you want to quibble with how or why they got to that conclusion, go ahead. But don't sit there and try to claim that the HSCA panel did anything other than conclude that the CE133* rifle is the same rifle recovered from the TSBD is CE139. That's simply what they said they found.

Iacoletti,

What kind of "analysis" do you think they should have done?

--  MWT  ;)

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2020, 08:32:06 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2020, 10:06:57 AM »
In all candor, Kirk had no friggin idea what Shaneyfelt looked at.

Huh? the HSCA Expert Photographic Panel examined first generation prints and 133-A DeMohrenschildt and 133-A Stovall were not examined in 1964 by the FBI and that's a fact Jack!



Anyway time to focus, the HSCA didn't hide their findings and their analysis has been available for over forty years and after all this time not even 1 photographic expert has refuted their findings but maybe you can find some photo expert to support your layman doubts, go for it and finally put your money where your mouth is.




JohnM
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 10:17:57 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2020, 04:45:37 PM »
What kind of "analysis" do you think they should have done?

Something that would actually show that the gouge Kirk thought he saw in the photo was identical in every respect to a gouge on CE 139.

This has got to be the most unscientific “analysis” of evidence in the entire JFK canon (other than large chunks of Bugliosi).



Moon craters? Really?

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2020, 08:30:40 PM »
Something that would actually show that the gouge Kirk thought he saw in the photo was identical in every respect to a gouge on CE 139.

This has got to be the most unscientific “analysis” of evidence in the entire JFK canon (other than large chunks of Bugliosi).



Moon craters? Really?

Distinctive and probative, like a tire impression on a muddy road, a tool mark in soft metal, and yes -- when looked at in the context of the placement, shape and size of the other craters around it -- a crater on the moon.

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 11:15:38 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Historian explains the mind of Conspiracy Nuts - CBS 1967
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2020, 08:30:40 PM »