Operation Mongoose

[Thomas Graves]

The Tasaroffs say "bad Russian".
And since they listened to all three calls, I think I'll say no more.

John-ovich,

Uh, point being?

Do you think PDS was wrong about "Oswald's" speaking bad English (and bad Russian) over the phone?

Did Tasaroff speak good English?

Where do you think that paper fragment PDS refers to in the video ... uh ... originated?

Isn't it possible that the fact "Oswald" spoke English badly over the phone was a game-changer, and the powers-that-be believed it had to be covered up in order to prevent Nuclear Armeggedon?  Could the fact that the fragment was torn be an example of the coverup in-and-of itself?

-- MWT 

[John Tonkovich]

John-ovich,

Uh, point being?

Do you think PDS was wrong about "Oswald's" speaking bad English (and bad Russian) over the phone?

Did Tasaroff speak good English?

Where do you think that paper fragment PDS refers to in the video ... uh ... originated?

Isn't it possible that the fact "Oswald" spoke English badly over the phone was a game-changer, and the powers-that-be believed it had to be covered up in order to prevent Nuclear Armeggedon?  Could the fact that the fragment was torn be an example of the coverup in-and-of itself?

-- MWT 

The Tasaroffs transcribed and translated the tapes. 
Their testimony- years later, HSCA - mentions the third conversation for the first time. That call is Oswald begging for money.  ( all part of an elaborate stage show, courtesy of..some Westerners looking to link Oswald to the East? Like the guy who came forward in Mexico City, then retracted his statement?)

[Thomas Graves]

The Tasaroffs transcribed and translated the tapes. 
Their testimony- years later, HSCA - mentions the third conversation for the first time. That call is Oswald begging for money.  (all part of an elaborate stage show, courtesy of..some Westerners looking to link Oswald to the East? Like the guy who came forward in Mexico City, then retracted his statement?)

Uh ... well ... yes, it could have been (and probably was) an elaborate stage show, courtesy of the KGB and the DGI rather than by the evil, evil, evil CIA (whether Oswald actually shot JFK for the KGB, or ... gasp ..."went rogue," and shot Charismatic Anti-Communist John F. Kennedy in order to .. uh ... advance the "Dialectic").

"But, for what purpose?" you might ask.

Well, to plant the aforementioned "WW III Virus" in Oswald's CIA file so that, in their reasonably expected desire to avoid Nuclear Armeggedon, the FBI and CIA would be forced to cover up Moscow's (and probably Havana's) involvement in the assassination.

We have reasonable grounds for believing that KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov provided Sylvia Duran at the Cuban consulate with some taken-in-Minsk photos of Oswald (wearing a sweater vest, white shirt and tie), and an already-forged-by-KGB Cuban visa form or two, and that, rather than impersonate Oswald physically (D'oh), he told Duran and Azcue what to do and say.

We are justified in believing this because Duran (in 1963 and 1978) and Azcue (in 1978) described the "Oswald" they'd dealt with in such a way that matched short (5' 7"), thin, blond-haired, blue-eyed, 35 year-old, suit-wearing, very thin-faced Leonov to a "T" , and we have reasonable grounds for believing that Ivan Obyedkov, CIA's putative double-agent at the Soviet embassy who volunteered the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" to "Oswald" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline, was actually a still-loyal-to-KGB triple-agent.

--  MWT

[John Tonkovich]

Uh ... well ... yes, it could have been (and probably was) an elaborate stage show, courtesy of the KGB and the DGI rather than by the evil, evil, evil CIA (whether Oswald actually shot JFK for the KGB, or ... gasp ..."went rogue," and shot Charismatic Anti-Communist John F. Kennedy in order to .. uh ... advance the "Dialectic").

"But, for what purpose?" you might ask.

Well, to plant the aforementioned "WW III Virus" in Oswald's CIA file so that, in their reasonably expected desire to avoid Nuclear Armeggedon, the FBI and CIA would be forced to cover up Moscow's (and probably Havana's) involvement in the assassination.

We have reasonable grounds for believing that KGB Colonel Nikolai Leonov provided Sylvia Duran at the Cuban consulate with some taken-in-Minsk photos of Oswald (wearing a sweater vest, white shirt and tie), and an already-forged-by-KGB Cuban visa form or two, and that, rather than impersonate Oswald physically (D'oh), he told Duran and Azcue what to do and say.

We are justified in believing this because Duran (in 1963 and 1978) and Azcue (in 1978) described the "Oswald" they'd dealt with in such a way that matched short (5' 7"), thin, blond-haired, blue-eyed, 35 year-old, suit-wearing, very thin-faced Leonov to a "T" , and we have reasonable grounds for believing that Ivan Obyedkov, CIA's putative double-agent at the Soviet embassy who volunteered the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" to "Oswald" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phoneline, was actually a still-loyal-to-KGB triple-agent.

--  MWT

Interesting.  And some evidence,  perhaps?

[Thomas Graves]

Interesting.  And some evidence,  perhaps?

John,

Evidence of what?

That the "Oswald" Duran and Azcue dealt with was probably short, thin, blond-haired, blue-eyed, 35 year-old, suit-wearing, very thin-faced "Third Secretary/Assistant Cultural Attache" Nikolai Leonov?

That the passport-sized photos this "Oswald" gave Duran of real-deal Oswald were probably taken in Minsk?

That what triple-agent Aleksei Kulak (FEDORA) told FBI was the only reason FBI and CIA (tentatively) believed KGB officer Valiery Kostikov in Mexico City was "Department 13"?

That the guy who "volunteered" the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" to "Oswald" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phone line was someone (Ivan Obyedkov) whom CIA believed it had recruited, but was actually still loyal to the Kremlin?

That this "Oswald" who spoke with Obyedkov on the phone was probably a native Russia-speaking KGB officer/agent, and could very well have been Leonov?

All of the above?

--  MWT 

[Walt Cakebread]

John,

Evidence of what?

That the "Oswald" Duran and Azcue dealt with was probably short, thin, blond-haired, blue-eyed, 35 year-old, suit-wearing, very thin-faced "Third Secretary/Assistant Cultural Attache" Nikolai Leonov?

That the passport-sized photos this "Oswald" gave Duran of real-deal Oswald were probably taken in Minsk?

That what triple-agent Aleksei Kulak (FEDORA) told FBI was the only reason FBI and CIA (tentatively) believed KGB officer Valiery Kostikov in Mexico City was "Department 13"?

That the guy who "volunteered" the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" to "Oswald" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA phone line was someone (Ivan Obyedkov) whom CIA believed it had recruited, but was actually still loyal to the Kremlin?

That this "Oswald" who spoke with Obyedkov on the phone was probably a native Russia-speaking KGB officer/agent, and could very well have been Leonov?

All of the above?

--  MWT 

That the passport-sized photos this "Oswald" gave Duran of real-deal Oswald were probably taken in Minsk?

Bulls eye, Quick Draw...You've just shot yerself in the foot.....

You are correct the photo is definitely Lee Oswald.........And it definitely was attached to a document that Lee had in his possession.   That document was referred to ( Erroneously ) as Lee Oswald's "selective service identification card "......   ( It was not a selective service ID card because a SS ID card (draft card does not carry a photo of the draftee)

However Lee's ID as a secret agent was a replica of a GI dependent's ID card.  ( The dependent's ID did carry a photo of the dependent)     When Lee returned to the Us he was required to turn in that agent's ID card...but Lee made a photocopy of it before he turned it in and he used the photocopy to create a fake official looking ID card.... But he had to attach a photo to the card so he used the minsk photo that had the lower right corner cut off where a stamp had been ...He then used a US quarter dollar coin and an ink pad to create a stamp on the card prior to laminating the card.

Lee had these documents in his possession.....Some impostor could not have had the documents.     

 P.S......You might find it interesting and informative ....Francis Gary Powers, ( a CIA agent) also carried a dependent's ID card ( just like Oswald's) when he was shot down over Russia on May day of 1961.  ( Powers tried to destroy that card before the Russians captured him)   And Richard Case Nagell ( a CIA agent) also carried that dependent's identification card.....

[Thomas Graves]

Cakewalk I mean Cakebread,

We're talking about different photos.

I'm talking about the passport-sized photos that were affixed to Oswald's Cuban visa application forms and which show him wearing a sweater vest, white shirt and tie.

D'oh

--  MWT 

.....

You posted:

That the passport-sized photos this "Oswald" gave Duran of real-deal Oswald were probably taken in Minsk?

Bulls eye, Quick Draw...You've just shot yerself in the foot.....

You are correct the photo is definitely Lee Oswald.........And it definitely was attached to a document that Lee had in his possession.   That document was referred to ( Erroneously ) as Lee Oswald's "selective service identification card "......   ( It was not a selective service ID card because a SS ID card (draft card does not carry a photo of the draftee)

However Lee's ID as a secret agent was a replica of a GI dependent's ID card.  ( The dependent's ID did carry a photo of the dependent)     When Lee returned to the Us he was required to turn in that agent's ID card...but Lee made a photocopy of it before he turned it in and he used the photocopy to create a fake official looking ID card.... But he had to attach a photo to the card so he used the minsk photo that had the lower right corner cut off where a stamp had been ...He then used a US quarter dollar coin and an ink pad to create a stamp on the card prior to laminating the card.

Lee had these documents in his possession.....Some impostor could not have had the documents.     

 P.S......You might find it interesting and informative ....Francis Gary Powers, ( a CIA agent) also carried a dependent's ID card ( just like Oswald's) when he was shot down over Russia on May day of 1961.  ( Powers tried to destroy that card before the Russians captured him)   And Richard Case Nagell ( a CIA agent) also carried that dependent's identification card.....

[Walt Cakebread]

Have you posted the photo?