Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.

[Richard Smith]

The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.

[Thomas Graves]

The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.

Richard,

It's amazing how much trouble the conspirators went to to frame Marine marksman and self-avowed Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald.

But wait. That "Marxist" persona was just something evil, evil, evil Alan Dulles and James Angleton foisted upon wannabe triple-agent Oswald so they could invade Cuba and nuke the USSR after they'd patsied him for the the murder of their hated nemesis, JFK.

(LOL)

--  MWT 

[John Tonkovich]

Richard,

It's amazing how much trouble the conspirators went to to frame Marine marksman and self-avowed Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald.

But wait. That "Marxist" persona was just something evil, evil, evil Alan Dulles and James Angleton foisted upon wannabe triple-agent Oswald so they could invade Cuba and nuke the USSR after they'd patsied him for the the murder of their hated nemesis, JFK.

(LOL)

--  MWT 

Uh, what proof do you have that Oswald was manipulated by the Soviets and Cubans?
Thanks.

[Martin Weidmann]

The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.

Richard "Strawman" Smith strikes again.

When one has to misrepresent the facts as much as Richard does, it's pretty obvious that he has nothing more than a very weak circumstantial case, no matter how often he repeats his talking points.

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)

There is sufficient evidence to justify doubt about this issue. The bag not being photographed in situ and at least six officers that were in the S/N prior to Studebaker said they did not see any bag. Then there is the obvious contradiction about who actually found the bag, with - if I recall correctly - at least two, maybe even three DPD officers claiming they found it. And let's not forget that the DPD claimed the bag was found folded up in a corner, when there is a photograph of the S/N showing the unfolded bag on top of some boxes.

2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)

For as long as I can remember it has always been the LN position that Frazier's estimates are not accurate. Now, here we have Richard claiming, falsely, that the bag allegedly found at the 6th floor matched "Frazier's estimate precise with scientific accuracy", whatever that may mean. Rather conveniently, Richard forgets of course that Frazier was shown the 6th floor bag on Friday evening, while he was being polygraphed, and he denied flat out that it was the bag he had seen Oswald carry. He described Oswald's bag as a thin flimsy sack like the ones you can get from a dime store.

3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Dear misguided Richard loves oversimplification, probably because otherwise things get too complicated for him. In Richard's echo-chamber he calls a brain, he believes that if you are photographed with a rifle, you must own that rifle. And if you touch a bag at your place of work, you must not only own that bag, but you also must have made it and used it to carry a rifle in it.

And what Richard calls "logical inference" is nothing more than self-serving overreaching speculation to ..... uh, keep it simple!

As far as his other "evidence", it is so full of assumptions and conjecture that it is not really worth discussing any further.....

But here are some examples (in bold);

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle  = pure speculation

3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD = meaningless speculation since no search for such a bag was ever conducted

4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found). - There is only conflicting evidence about where the bag was found and who found it

"Oswald's rifle" & "his rifle" LOL

5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle. - There were other prints on the bag that could not be identified, which means it can not be ruled out that other TSBD employees also touched the bag and the FBI found no print on the rifle. There was a print on an evidence card, produced by Lt Day, a week after the murder, which he claimed came from the rifle, which alone is cause for reasonable doubt

7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle. = More speculation to arrive at a predetermined superficial conclusion

Keep it simple, Richard.... 

[John Iacoletti]

"Richard" of course will ignore all this and just repeat his mantra again, the next time it comes up.

Besides, I'm not sure how "Richard's" righteously indignant speculation about the CE 142 bag tells us who shot Kennedy.

[Richard Smith]

Richard "Strawman" Smith strikes again.

When one has to misrepresent the facts as much as Richard does, it's pretty obvious that he has nothing more than a very weak circumstantial case, no matter how often he repeats his talking points.

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)

There is sufficient evidence to justify doubt about this issue. The bag not being photographed in situ and at least six officers that were in the S/N prior to Studebaker said they did not see any bag. Then there is the obvious contradiction about who actually found the bag, with - if I recall correctly - at least two, maybe even three DPD officers claiming they found it. And let's not forget that the DPD claimed the bag was found folded up in a corner, when there is a photograph of the S/N showing the unfolded bag on top of some boxes.

2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)

For as long as I can remember it has always been the LN position that Frazier's estimates are not accurate. Now, here we have Richard claiming, falsely, that the bag allegedly found at the 6th floor matched "Frazier's estimate precise with scientific accuracy", whatever that may mean. Rather conveniently, Richard forgets of course that Frazier was shown the 6th floor bag on Friday evening, while he was being polygraphed, and he denied flat out that it was the bag he had seen Oswald carry. He described Oswald's bag as a thin flimsy sack like the ones you can get from a dime store.

3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Dear misguided Richard loves oversimplification, probably because otherwise things get too complicated for him. In Richard's echo-chamber he calls a brain, he believes that if you are photographed with a rifle, you must own that rifle. And if you touch a bag at your place of work, you must not only own that bag, but you also must have made it and used it to carry a rifle in it.

And what Richard calls "logical inference" is nothing more than self-serving overreaching speculation to ..... uh, keep it simple!

As far as his other "evidence", it is so full of assumptions and conjecture that it is not really worth discussing any further.....

But here are some examples (in bold);

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle  = pure speculation

3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD = meaningless speculation since no search for such a bag was ever conducted

4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found). - There is only conflicting evidence about where the bag was found and who found it

"Oswald's rifle" & "his rifle" LOL

5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle. - There were other prints on the bag that could not be identified, which means it can not be ruled out that other TSBD employees also touched the bag and the FBI found no print on the rifle. There was a print on an evidence card, produced by Lt Day, a week after the murder, which he claimed came from the rifle, which alone is cause for reasonable doubt

7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle. = More speculation to arrive at a predetermined superficial conclusion

Keep it simple, Richard.... 

So many words.  Honestly, ask yourself if you really believe that finding this strange bag that can't be accounted for in any other way, in its location near the SN with Oswald's prints on it is not evidence of anything.  At the very least, the totality of circumstances lends itself to the conclusion that this was the bag Oswald carried that morning whatever false doubt that you wish to interject as to its contents.  His prints are on the bag, he carried a long bag that morning, no other bag matching Frazier's description was ever found or accounted for, no explanation for this bag ever came from any other employee or person with access to that floor, it is found at the crime scene next to the SN which also had Oswald's prints.  So why was this bag there?  How did it get there?  Did some other TSBD employee construct and use such a bag and then just not ever mention it even after it was widely publicized to have been used to carry the rifle that assassinated the president?  Whew.  What happened to the shorter bag you apparently believe Oswald carried pursuant to Frazier's estimate?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.  Why did Oswald lie to the police about carrying his lunch that day and not a bag as described by Frazier?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.  What happened to Oswald's rifle since it is missing when the police search the Paine's garage?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.  It's all just an inexplicable fog of events which could point in Oswald's direction because he was unlucky but from which no logical inference can ever be drawn.

I'm truly perplexed (although greatly amused) at your bizarre claim that I suggested the bag precisely matched Frazier's estimate.  Notice the heading in which that was contained.  It will perhaps provide a clue to assist you:   "The CTer song and dance goes like this:"  To be clear since you are having comprehension issues, I believe that Frazier honestly but erroneously estimated the size the of bag and thought it was shorter than the one found which was carried by Oswald.  Frazier was mistaken as demonstrated by the actual evidence recovered at the scene and totality of circumstances including the absence of any evidence whatsoever to support an alternative explanation for all the known events and evidence (e.g. finding another bag that matched Frazier's description or a work-related explanation for why this bag was on the 6th floor or Oswald confirming that he carried a bag as described by Frazier and directing the police to that bag because its discovery would have been exculpatory to him if innocent).

[Martin Weidmann]

So many words.  Honestly, ask yourself if you really believe that finding this strange bag that can't be accounted for in any other way, in its location near the SN with Oswald's prints on it is not evidence of anything.  At the very least, the totality of circumstances lends itself to the conclusion that this was the bag Oswald carried that morning whatever false doubt that you wish to interject as to its contents.  His prints are on the bag, he carried a long bag that morning, no other bag matching Frazier's description was ever found or accounted for, no explanation for this bag ever came from any other employee or person with access to that floor, it is found at the crime scene next to the SN which also had Oswald's prints.  So why was this bag there?  How did it get there?  Did some other TSBD employee construct and use such a bag and then just not ever mention it even after it was widely publicized to have been used to carry the rifle that assassinated the president?  Whew.  What happened to the shorter bag you apparently believe Oswald carried pursuant to Frazier's estimate?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.  Why did Oswald lie to the police about carrying his lunch that day and not a bag as described by Frazier?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.  What happened to Oswald's rifle since it is missing when the police search the Paine's garage?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.  It's all just an inexplicable fog of events which could point in Oswald's direction because he was unlucky but from which no logical inference can ever be drawn.

I'm truly perplexed (although greatly amused) at your bizarre claim that I suggested the bag precisely matched Frazier's estimate.  Notice the heading in which that was contained.  It will perhaps provide a clue to assist you:   "The CTer song and dance goes like this:"  To be clear since you are having comprehension issues, I believe that Frazier honestly but erroneously estimated the size the of bag and thought it was shorter than the one found which was carried by Oswald.  Frazier was mistaken as demonstrated by the actual evidence recovered at the scene and totality of circumstances including the absence of any evidence whatsoever to support an alternative explanation for all the known events and evidence (e.g. finding another bag that matched Frazier's description or a work-related explanation for why this bag was on the 6th floor or Oswald confirming that he carried a bag as described by Frazier and directing the police to that bag because its discovery would have been exculpatory to him if innocent).

So many words.

Look who is talking..... 

Honestly, ask yourself if you really believe that finding this strange bag that can't be accounted for in any other way, in its location near the SN with Oswald's prints on it is not evidence of anything.

First of all, there was nothing strange about that bag. You just saying that it was strange, doesn't make it so. Secondly,there is also no reason to assume that the bag can't be accounted for in any other way, as there is not a shred of evidence that anyone ever investigated that angle. Thirdly, the fact that it was found near the SN (if that's what happened) with Oswald's prints on it is, at best, evidence that it was found in a place where Oswald worked. Everything else is conjecture, even more so as there were other unidentified prints on the bag as well.

At the very least, the totality of circumstances lends itself to the conclusion that this was the bag Oswald carried that morning whatever false doubt that you wish to interject as to its contents.  His prints are on the bag, he carried a long bag that morning, no other bag matching Frazier's description was ever found or accounted for, no explanation for this bag ever came from any other employee or person with access to that floor, it is found at the crime scene next to the SN which also had Oswald's prints.

There  is nothing "at the very least" about it. All you've got is conjecture

So why was this bag there?  How did it get there?  Did some other TSBD employee construct and use such a bag and then just not ever mention it even after it was widely publicized to have been used to carry the rifle that assassinated the president?  Whew.

"Just never mention it" LOL... You seem to think that everybody would jump at the opportunity to become (at best) a witness or (at worst) a suspect. Just how far removed from reality are you, when you don't even understand that most people will prefer to stay well clear of cooperation with police in a murder investigation?

What happened to the shorter bag you apparently believe Oswald carried pursuant to Frazier's estimate?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.

Neiter do you! All you can do is guess. If the bag indeed contained Oswald's lunch, he could have simply thrown it away. There is no record of anybody ever searching for that bag! You don't get to argue that just because that bag was never found or produced, it has to be the 6th floor bag that he carried.

Why did Oswald lie to the police about carrying his lunch that day and not a bag as described by Frazier?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.

Again, neither have you. What you also haven't got is any proof that Oswald did in fact lie to the police. There is no verbatim record of what he told police!

What happened to Oswald's rifle since it is missing when the police search the Paine's garage?  Let me guess.  You have no idea.

"Oswald's rifle" LOL... Do you have any proof that Oswald ever owned a rifle, that it was ever stored in Ruth Paine's garage and that it was still there on 11/21/63?
Let me answer that for you: No, you don't All you have is a claim by Marina that she saw what she believed to be the wooden stock of a rifle sticking out of the blanket in the garage. That's it... everything is speculation not supported by any physical evidence.

It's all just an inexplicable fog of events which could point in Oswald's direction because he was unlucky but from which no logical inference can ever be drawn.

It sure as hell isn't anything normal, that you would expect, that's for sure. Did you think this through? So, let's see.... The story is that Oswald tries to kill General Walker with that rifle. He then let's it lie around the house, so that the the Mohrenschildts see it, just before they leave the country. He then takes it on a bus to New Orleans, concealing it in such a way that nobody noticed. A few months later, he hands over a rifle used in an attempted murder, to Ruth Paine, a woman he hardly knew and poorly wrapped in nothing but a blanket, thus losing complete control over the weapon for weeks. He then returns to Dallas and acts like nothing has happened. He doesn't remove the rifle or hide it somewhere else.... no, it stays in the blanket and Marina, who knows Ruth Paine is dead against weapons, does not talk to him about it. Micheal Paine, in the meantime, moves the blanket around in the garage without seeing a rifle, instead thinking it is camping equipment. You can't make this stuff up....

However, if Oswald was being set up,.... well then you would get "evidence" pointing in his direction, wouldn't you?

I believe that Frazier honestly but erroneously estimated the size the of bag and thought it was shorter than the one found which was carried by Oswald. 

So, now that we know what you believe let's try to take the next baby step. Why don't you explain to us why, on Friday evening, only hours after the murder, Frazier, while being polygraphed, denied that the bag he was shown by DPD officers (i.e. the 6th floor bag) was the bag he had seen Oswald carry and why he described that actual bag he had seen as a thin flimsy sack like the ones you can get from a dime store? And why did Lt Day subsequently, rather desperately, speculated that Oswald could have carried the 6th floor bag, with the rifle in it, in the flimsy sack?

Frazier was mistaken as demonstrated by the actual evidence recovered at the scene and totality of circumstances including the absence of any evidence whatsoever to support an alternative explanation for all the known events and evidence

And so we are back to the default position "If you can not prove otherwise, my conjecture and speculation is correct"

Why don't you contact Frazier and tell him he was mistaken. Let's see if he agrees with you... What do you think?

[Bill Chapman]

The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.

The little prick has already said he didn't shoot anyone. So it must be true.
He wasn't resisting arrest, either. We know this because he said so.