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Author Topic: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.  (Read 96353 times)

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2020, 02:26:36 AM »
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    "Each series of three shots landed within areas ranging in diameter from 3 to 5 inches.
     Although all of the shots were a few inches high and to the right of the target, this was
     because of a defect in the scope which was recognized by the FBI agents and which
     they could have compensated for if they were aiming to hit a bull's-eye. They were
     instead firing to determine how rapidly the weapon could be fired and the area within
     which three shots could be placed. Frazier testified that while he could not tell when the
     defect occurred, but that a person familiar with the weapon could compensate for it."
           -- Warren Report, USGPO, p194

You're quoting the WR?  :D

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2020, 02:26:36 AM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2020, 02:52:31 AM »
You're quoting the WR?  :D

I should just ape the critics' version of what's in the Report?

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2020, 12:48:32 PM »
Two questions for you John (and anyone else).

1. When was the SN photo taken and by whom?

2. Can you provide any evidence that the cover was sealed at both ends at any time?

Bump

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2020, 12:48:32 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2020, 03:15:38 PM »
The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.


Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2020, 03:33:08 PM »
The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.

Richard,

It's amazing how much trouble the conspirators went to to frame Marine marksman and self-avowed Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald.

But wait. That "Marxist" persona was just something evil, evil, evil Alan Dulles and James Angleton foisted upon wannabe triple-agent Oswald so they could invade Cuba and nuke the USSR after they'd patsied him for the the murder of their hated nemesis, JFK.

(LOL)

--  MWT  ;)

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2020, 03:33:08 PM »


Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2020, 03:53:40 PM »
Richard,

It's amazing how much trouble the conspirators went to to frame Marine marksman and self-avowed Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald.

But wait. That "Marxist" persona was just something evil, evil, evil Alan Dulles and James Angleton foisted upon wannabe triple-agent Oswald so they could invade Cuba and nuke the USSR after they'd patsied him for the the murder of their hated nemesis, JFK.

(LOL)

--  MWT  ;)

Uh, what proof do you have that Oswald was manipulated by the Soviets and Cubans?
Thanks.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #38 on: February 27, 2020, 03:54:41 PM »
The CTer song and dance goes like this:

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)
2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)
3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Back on planet Earth, we know the following:

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle
2) He carried a long bag to work the following morning which he confirmed to Frazier was not his lunch
3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD and Oswald himself denied carrying any such long bag instead claiming he carried only his lunch (either making him or Frazier a liar)
4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found)
5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle
6) The bag is long enough to contain the rifle found on that floor which belonged to Oswald
7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle.

Richard "Strawman" Smith strikes again.

When one has to misrepresent the facts as much as Richard does, it's pretty obvious that he has nothing more than a very weak circumstantial case, no matter how often he repeats his talking points.

1) cast doubt on the bag being found even though multiple witnesses confirm that is what happened (i.e. everyone who saw it is a liar and potential conspirator)

There is sufficient evidence to justify doubt about this issue. The bag not being photographed in situ and at least six officers that were in the S/N prior to Studebaker said they did not see any bag. Then there is the obvious contradiction about who actually found the bag, with - if I recall correctly - at least two, maybe even three DPD officers claiming they found it. And let's not forget that the DPD claimed the bag was found folded up in a corner, when there is a photograph of the S/N showing the unfolded bag on top of some boxes.

2) suggest it is not the bag described by Frazier  (i.e. Frazier's estimate is precise with scientific accuracy)

For as long as I can remember it has always been the LN position that Frazier's estimates are not accurate. Now, here we have Richard claiming, falsely, that the bag allegedly found at the 6th floor matched "Frazier's estimate precise with scientific accuracy", whatever that may mean. Rather conveniently, Richard forgets of course that Frazier was shown the 6th floor bag on Friday evening, while he was being polygraphed, and he denied flat out that it was the bag he had seen Oswald carry. He described Oswald's bag as a thin flimsy sack like the ones you can get from a dime store.

3) then argue that even if Oswald touched it (unlucky guy that day!), it doesn't prove he carried a rifle in it or that it was his bag (the old impossible standard of proof trick in which no fact can ever be proven because no logical inference is ever allowed from the totality of circumstances).

Dear misguided Richard loves oversimplification, probably because otherwise things get too complicated for him. In Richard's echo-chamber he calls a brain, he believes that if you are photographed with a rifle, you must own that rifle. And if you touch a bag at your place of work, you must not only own that bag, but you also must have made it and used it to carry a rifle in it.

And what Richard calls "logical inference" is nothing more than self-serving overreaching speculation to ..... uh, keep it simple!

As far as his other "evidence", it is so full of assumptions and conjecture that it is not really worth discussing any further.....

But here are some examples (in bold);

1) Oswald made an unexpected trip on the night before the assassination to the location where he kept his rifle  = pure speculation

3) No long bag matching Frazier's exact description was ever found in the TSBD = meaningless speculation since no search for such a bag was ever conducted

4) The bag was found near the SN from which bullet casings from Oswald's rifle were found (on the same floor where his rifle was found). - There is only conflicting evidence about where the bag was found and who found it

"Oswald's rifle" & "his rifle" LOL

5) Oswald's prints were on the bag and the nearby SN boxes (unlike any other TSBD employee) and rifle. - There were other prints on the bag that could not be identified, which means it can not be ruled out that other TSBD employees also touched the bag and the FBI found no print on the rifle. There was a print on an evidence card, produced by Lt Day, a week after the murder, which he claimed came from the rifle, which alone is cause for reasonable doubt

7) No one who worked in the TSBD has ever come forward with any explanation as to why this strange bag was on the 6th floor or suggest that it had some work-related purpose for being there or that it belonged to them.  As a result, there in no explanation for the bag's presence in that location by anyone else who worked in the building.  There are no apparent examples of any such similar bags in the building to suggest a work-related purpose for such a bag despite a number of photos taken on that floor and search of the building. The bag appears to be an unexplained anomaly after 50 plus years if not the bag used by Oswald to carry the rifle. = More speculation to arrive at a predetermined superficial conclusion

Keep it simple, Richard....  Thumb1:
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 04:00:51 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2020, 04:14:34 PM »
"Richard" of course will ignore all this and just repeat his mantra again, the next time it comes up.

Besides, I'm not sure how "Richard's" righteously indignant speculation about the CE 142 bag tells us who shot Kennedy.

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #39 on: February 27, 2020, 04:14:34 PM »