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Author Topic: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.  (Read 96123 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2020, 05:16:09 PM »
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A felicitous print overkill at that....more convenient/opportune evidence left for the cops to "find"---
 

Notice that Detective Mandela  was working with a PHOTOGRAPH that allegedly was a photo of the underside of the gun barrel  ......

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #104 on: March 03, 2020, 05:16:09 PM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2020, 10:08:23 PM »
I believe Detective Day left the TSBD with the carcano at about 2:00 pm... ( the bag was first imagined to be the container by which the rifle had been smuggled into the TSBD AFTER  Day had left the building with the rifle) I doubt that they compared the length of the carcano with the length of the bag....because if they had,.... they would have known that the rifle was too long to fit in that bag, and they never would have suggested that the rifle was smuggled into the TSBD in that bag.    However Fritz knew the script called for the Patsy to have carried the carcano into the TSBD in a paper sack, and when he was informed that the sack was too small to contain the rifle , he immediately responded;.....Quote....  "Well then he must have broke the rifle down then...and I'm sure he did" Unquote.    Now, THAT'S first class detective work!!     Unfortunately for Mr Top Notch detective's brilliant deduction ...The bag was too small to hold the disassembled rifle...

If the bag was never sealed at both ends it served as a wrapper for the intact rifle. Montgomery and Johnson never saw CE139 at the time of its discovery. Day left the building at 2pm after visiting the first floor wrapping table with Studebaker to collect samples for a bag that had not been found yet.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #106 on: March 03, 2020, 11:47:48 PM »
The wrapper was removed from the TSBD about 3pm by Montgomery. He is officially credited with finding CE142 some time after Studebaker finished processing the bottle and bag near where Johnson was stationed (west of the SN). Johnson carried out the lunch sack and bottle This was after Day had departed with CE139 about 2pm. Before he left the building Day and Studebaker visited the wrapping table to collect "samples".

Anyone catch the problem with this chronology?

I am unsure if the bag was locked up the same way the rifle was as Day was working on and transporting the rifle on occasions that afternoon and evening.

So far no one has claimed that CE142 was sealed at both ends. I take it that the LN supporters are all comfortable with this.

The wrapper was removed from the TSBD about 3pm by Montgomery.

Not quite. Since when is 2:19 your 'about 3pm'?

The Long Brown Bag
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bag.htm
The bag was photographed being brought out the front of the Depository at 2:19 p.m. (Trask, Pictures of the Pain)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2020, 11:50:18 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #106 on: March 03, 2020, 11:47:48 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #107 on: March 03, 2020, 11:49:22 PM »
If the bag was never sealed at both ends it served as a wrapper for the intact rifle. Montgomery and Johnson never saw CE139 at the time of its discovery. Day left the building at 2pm after visiting the first floor wrapping table with Studebaker to collect samples for a bag that had not been found yet.

From the Sixth Floor Museum's Oral History by Carl Day 1996:


Bob: One of the questions that I think has come up is the bag that Oswald‟s rifle was in. There weren‟t any pictures made of that? Do you remember seeing that in that area?
Carl: Yes, there was a bag, a brown bag, there. It was made out of wrapping paper, and we collected that bag.
Bob: You did collect it, but you didn‟t photograph it?
Carl: There should be a picture of it somewhere.
Bob: Now where was it now, where was it? Kind of behind the boxes, do you remember?
Carl: To the best of my knowledge, it was to the right on the floor of where he was sitting, on the box that I showed you a minute ago. It may have been the right, it may have been the left, but there was a bag there.
Bob: Left would be like in the corner…
Carl: Yes, in the corner out back towards the north side of the building, where you headed up to it.
Bob: What did it look like to you, then, if you collected it, did you not know what it was?
Carl: I didn't know anything about a bag at that time. There was a bag laying there, at the first thing, there was a brown paper bag, it was too big for that. Later examination indicated that it was a bag had been made out of wrapping paper. It appeared to be shipping paper, and there was a roll in the shipping department downstairs that sent me the paper. Of course at that time, we didn‟t know anything about Oswald, didn‟t know anything about what happened. There was a bag there and it was collected.

(Emphasis added by me)

Please keep in mind that Carl Day had been retired for 20-years by 1996. And he had not kept up with the conspiracy theories...

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #108 on: March 04, 2020, 01:14:50 AM »
From the Sixth Floor Museum's Oral History by Carl Day 1996:


Bob: One of the questions that I think has come up is the bag that Oswald‟s rifle was in. There weren‟t any pictures made of that? Do you remember seeing that in that area?
Carl: Yes, there was a bag, a brown bag, there. It was made out of wrapping paper, and we collected that bag.
Bob: You did collect it, but you didn‟t photograph it?
Carl: There should be a picture of it somewhere.
Bob: Now where was it now, where was it? Kind of behind the boxes, do you remember?
Carl: To the best of my knowledge, it was to the right on the floor of where he was sitting, on the box that I showed you a minute ago. It may have been the right, it may have been the left, but there was a bag there.
Bob: Left would be like in the corner…
Carl: Yes, in the corner out back towards the north side of the building, where you headed up to it.
Bob: What did it look like to you, then, if you collected it, did you not know what it was?
Carl: I didn't know anything about a bag at that time. There was a bag laying there, at the first thing, there was a brown paper bag, it was too big for that. Later examination indicated that it was a bag had been made out of wrapping paper. It appeared to be shipping paper, and there was a roll in the shipping department downstairs that sent me the paper. Of course at that time, we didn‟t know anything about Oswald, didn‟t know anything about what happened. There was a bag there and it was collected.

(Emphasis added by me)

Please keep in mind that Carl Day had been retired for 20-years by 1996. And he had not kept up with the conspiracy theories...

John Carl Day was THE biggest liar at the Dallas police department....   So why would you post the liar's testimony?

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #108 on: March 04, 2020, 01:14:50 AM »


Offline Pat Speer

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #109 on: March 04, 2020, 01:48:17 AM »
The wrapper was removed from the TSBD about 3pm by Montgomery.

Not quite. Since when is 2:19 your 'about 3pm'?

The Long Brown Bag
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bag.htm
The bag was photographed being brought out the front of the Depository at 2:19 p.m. (Trask, Pictures of the Pain)

Trask didn't have access to the digitized copies of the bag in front of the building now available. As first noticed by the late great researcher John Hunt, and presented on the Lancer Forum, if I recall, Montgomery's watch was fairly clear in one of the photos. Here is a close-up of that watch.

« Last Edit: March 04, 2020, 01:51:01 AM by Pat Speer »

Offline Pat Speer

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #110 on: March 04, 2020, 01:55:23 AM »
From the Sixth Floor Museum's Oral History by Carl Day 1996:


Bob: One of the questions that I think has come up is the bag that Oswald‟s rifle was in. There weren‟t any pictures made of that? Do you remember seeing that in that area?
Carl: Yes, there was a bag, a brown bag, there. It was made out of wrapping paper, and we collected that bag.
Bob: You did collect it, but you didn‟t photograph it?
Carl: There should be a picture of it somewhere.
Bob: Now where was it now, where was it? Kind of behind the boxes, do you remember?
Carl: To the best of my knowledge, it was to the right on the floor of where he was sitting, on the box that I showed you a minute ago. It may have been the right, it may have been the left, but there was a bag there.
Bob: Left would be like in the corner…
Carl: Yes, in the corner out back towards the north side of the building, where you headed up to it.
Bob: What did it look like to you, then, if you collected it, did you not know what it was?
Carl: I didn't know anything about a bag at that time. There was a bag laying there, at the first thing, there was a brown paper bag, it was too big for that. Later examination indicated that it was a bag had been made out of wrapping paper. It appeared to be shipping paper, and there was a roll in the shipping department downstairs that sent me the paper. Of course at that time, we didn‟t know anything about Oswald, didn‟t know anything about what happened. There was a bag there and it was collected.

(Emphasis added by me)

Please keep in mind that Carl Day had been retired for 20-years by 1996. And he had not kept up with the conspiracy theories...

I hope you're not trying to prop up that Day was present when the bag was "discovered." Because that ship has sailed.

From patspeer.com, Chapter 4c.

Day's post-1964 statements on the bag, in fact, confirm he was not actually present when the bag was "discovered."

A summary of Day's 10-18-77 interview with HSCA investigators Harold Rose and Al Maxwell (HSCA record 180-10107-10176) relates: "Lt. Day stated that he remembers the brown wrapping paper in the S.E. corner and stated that he believes his office processed it and it went with the other evidence to the F.B.I."

He "believes"? Really?

In 1992, when asked by researcher Denis Morissette if he knew who found the bag, Day similarly responded: "I don't know. It was on the floor next to and north of the box Oswald was sitting on when I arrived at the 6th floor. My men and I collected the bag at this place. As far as I know it had not been moved by any officers." Note that he never describes his initial spotting and inspection of the bag, or his dusting and signing the bag. He says only that there was a bag, that it was collected by his men, and that it was found by... someone... north of the sniper's seat. (His testimony had been that it was south of the sniper's seat, directly in the corner.)

In 1996, in an oral history recorded for The Sixth Floor Museum, moreover, Day had the chance to set the record straight and once again offered smoke. When asked why the bag hadn't been photographed, he responded "There should be a picture of it somewhere." When then asked by interviewer Bob Porter where the bag had been found, he replied "To the best of my knowledge, it was to the right on the floor of where he was sitting, on the box that I showed you a minute ago. It may have been the right, it may have been the left, but there was a bag there." When Porter pointed out that "left" would mean the corner (where Day had testified the bag was discovered), moreover, Day surprised him, and once again asserted that the bag had been found north of the sniper's seat. He responded "Yes, in the corner out back towards the north side of the building, where you headed up to it." He then admitted "I didn’t know anything about a bag at that time. There was a bag laying there...Later examination indicated that it was a bag had been made out of wrapping paper. It appeared to be shipping paper...Of course at that time, we didn’t know anything about Oswald, didn’t know anything about what happened. There was a bag there and it was collected."

Now, this, of course, supports that Day hadn't actually seen the bag where he claims it was found, and that others were, in fact, responsible for its collection in the depository.

This likelihood is further supported by Day's recollection to Larry Sneed, published in 1998, moreover. Day is reported to have told Sneed that "Also found on the sixth floor, as I recall, near the shell area, was a paper bag. It should have been photographed, but for some reason, apparently wasn't."

In fact, in what was to become his final word on the subject, in a 7-11-06 interview with The Sixth Floor Museum, Day came as close to admitting perjury as one can come. In opposition to his Warren Commission testimony that he'd signed the paper bag or sack "at the time the sack was found," Day ultimately admitted that when he and Studebaker left the sniper's nest to go photograph the rifle on the other side of the building "They had posted guards or something around it and they didn't have the sense to leave things alone. And they'd got in there and picked up a sack that was in this corner. And we didn't get a picture of it. But there was a sack right in that corner...the brown paper bag. It was the one he was supposed to have brought curtain rods in. Well, they picked it up while I was gone, and I didn't get a picture of it while it was sitting there."

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #111 on: March 04, 2020, 02:21:50 AM »
I hope you're not trying to prop up that Day was present when the bag was "discovered." Because that ship has sailed.

From patspeer.com, Chapter 4c.

Day's post-1964 statements on the bag, in fact, confirm he was not actually present when the bag was "discovered."

A summary of Day's 10-18-77 interview with HSCA investigators Harold Rose and Al Maxwell (HSCA record 180-10107-10176) relates: "Lt. Day stated that he remembers the brown wrapping paper in the S.E. corner and stated that he believes his office processed it and it went with the other evidence to the F.B.I."

He "believes"? Really?

In 1992, when asked by researcher Denis Morissette if he knew who found the bag, Day similarly responded: "I don't know. It was on the floor next to and north of the box Oswald was sitting on when I arrived at the 6th floor. My men and I collected the bag at this place. As far as I know it had not been moved by any officers." Note that he never describes his initial spotting and inspection of the bag, or his dusting and signing the bag. He says only that there was a bag, that it was collected by his men, and that it was found by... someone... north of the sniper's seat. (His testimony had been that it was south of the sniper's seat, directly in the corner.)

In 1996, in an oral history recorded for The Sixth Floor Museum, moreover, Day had the chance to set the record straight and once again offered smoke. When asked why the bag hadn't been photographed, he responded "There should be a picture of it somewhere." When then asked by interviewer Bob Porter where the bag had been found, he replied "To the best of my knowledge, it was to the right on the floor of where he was sitting, on the box that I showed you a minute ago. It may have been the right, it may have been the left, but there was a bag there." When Porter pointed out that "left" would mean the corner (where Day had testified the bag was discovered), moreover, Day surprised him, and once again asserted that the bag had been found north of the sniper's seat. He responded "Yes, in the corner out back towards the north side of the building, where you headed up to it." He then admitted "I didn’t know anything about a bag at that time. There was a bag laying there...Later examination indicated that it was a bag had been made out of wrapping paper. It appeared to be shipping paper...Of course at that time, we didn’t know anything about Oswald, didn’t know anything about what happened. There was a bag there and it was collected."

Now, this, of course, supports that Day hadn't actually seen the bag where he claims it was found, and that others were, in fact, responsible for its collection in the depository.

This likelihood is further supported by Day's recollection to Larry Sneed, published in 1998, moreover. Day is reported to have told Sneed that "Also found on the sixth floor, as I recall, near the shell area, was a paper bag. It should have been photographed, but for some reason, apparently wasn't."

In fact, in what was to become his final word on the subject, in a 7-11-06 interview with The Sixth Floor Museum, Day came as close to admitting perjury as one can come. In opposition to his Warren Commission testimony that he'd signed the paper bag or sack "at the time the sack was found," Day ultimately admitted that when he and Studebaker left the sniper's nest to go photograph the rifle on the other side of the building "They had posted guards or something around it and they didn't have the sense to leave things alone. And they'd got in there and picked up a sack that was in this corner. And we didn't get a picture of it. But there was a sack right in that corner...the brown paper bag. It was the one he was supposed to have brought curtain rods in. Well, they picked it up while I was gone, and I didn't get a picture of it while it was sitting there."


Now, this, of course, supports that Day hadn't actually seen the bag where he claims it was found, and that others were, in fact, responsible for its collection in the depository.

Is this your comment Pat? If so, please explain your logic in making the claim that Day hadn’t actually seen the bag. Thanks.

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #111 on: March 04, 2020, 02:21:50 AM »