Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, any attempt to crawl inside the mind of Oswald is futile.

People talk about this guy as if they knew him personally and intimately, when they didn't. They base their opinions on what they have been told about him by biased and/or questionable sources. To me, anybody who writes a book about Oswald for the purpose of financial gains is a questionable source unless the quality of the works proves otherwise.

There is so much about the whole JFK murder narrative that is questionable, contradictory or simply not true, that you can not accept any kind of information about the man at face value.

Just take yourself as example... Just how many people around you do really know you so intimately that they can say anything authoritative about your frame of mind at any given time?

Yet, here we all are shaping our opinions about Oswald based on second hand information, guesses and our own bias in considering him either guilty or innocent.

Priscilla Johnson's account of what Marina told her about the Walker incident seems to be in accord with Marina's testimony about that episode.

IMO the account in "MARINA and LEE"  is true......



Mrs. PORTER. We did not have television. He turned the radio on later on, listened for the news, and it wasn't, nothing on.

Mr. McDONALD. You say he returned late that evening.

Mr. McDONALD. But it is your testimony he did not come home after work, before going out to try to shoot General Walker.
Mrs. PORTER. I really do not remember right now. He might, didn't come from work, or maybe he left and come back later.

Mr. McDONALD. When he returned that evening, about what time did he get back?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember the time. Quite late.

Mr. McDONALD. Was it early in the evening, late in the evening?
Mrs. PORTER. I assume it is very late in the evening.
Mr. McDONALD. Did he come in with the rifle?
Mrs. PORTER. No.
Mr. McDONALD. You specifically remember he did not have it?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, as I recall right now, I think a few days later,or the next day or 2 days later, he went and brought the rifle back in thehouse.
Mr. McDONALD. How did he bring it back? How did he carry it?
Mrs. PORTER. The same way he was taking it out, with the raincoat on.
Mr. McDONALD. With the raincoat?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes. Mr. McDONALD. Is this the way he would normally take the rifle out of the Neely Street apartment, under the raincoat?
Mrs. PORTER. When he went as he said practice, target practice---
Mr. McDONALD. Yes?
Mrs. PORTER [continuing]. That usually was the procedure.
Mr. McDONALD. But concerning the General Walker incident, do you remember the night, that night, when he came in pale? When he came in, did he have the raincoat on?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember. But as I recall right now, I think that he went and he hid the rifle somewhere else.

Mr. McDONALD. Did he seem pleased when he got home?
Mrs. PORTER. Pleased with what?
Mr. McDONALD. Pleased with what he had done?
Mrs. PORTER. No, he was just nervous and he was eager for listen to the news, but then he was disappointed.

Mr. McDONALD. You mentioned a note, he left you a note.
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. Where was this note left?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember right now, but I think it could be in the closet, on the table there.
Mr. McDONALD. I am sorry?
Mrs. PORTER. Maybe it is in the closet above his shelf or something like that.
Mr. McDONALD. You found this note before he returned? Did you find it before he returned?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so.
Mr. McDONALD. And what did it say?
Mrs. PORTER. What for me to do in case if he did not come back home.
Mr. McDONALD. And what specifically did it say?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, it was a key to the mailbox, post office mailbox, I think. I really don't remember what the note exactly said right now.
Mr. McDONALD. Was it written in his handwriting?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. And what did you do with the note when he returned home?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember.
Mr. McDONALD. Is that note in existence now?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't know.
Mr. McDONALD. Did Lee have a notebook, a book that he used to keep writings in, regarding General Walker?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so.
Mr. McDONALD. What do you remember about it?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, at the time when he was spending lots of time alone in the closet, I thought that he is writing, you know. I don't know, whatever it was, but I learn about that, that was something to do with General Walker. I learned about that later.
Mr. McDONALD. How did you learn about it?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember.
Mr. MCDONALD. Did he tell you?
Mrs. PORTER. Could have been.
Mr. McDONALD. You learned about it soon after the Walker incident? You learned about the notebook shortly after the Walker incident?
Mrs. PORTER. Probably.
Mr. McDONALD. So who else would be in a position to tell you what the notebook contained?
Mrs. PORTER. You--you probably have access to it.
Mr. McDONALD. No, no, I mean at that time.
Mrs. PORTER. Only Lee, yes, sir.
Mr. McDONALD. Do you recall if that notebook contained photographs?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so.
Mr. McDONALD. What did those photographs depict?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I remember now it looked like some kind of a house or a road or something like that of that nature, and if 1 asked him what it was, he said that is General Walker's house.
Mr. McDONALD. And were these photographs attached to a piece of paper, I mean a page of the notebook itself?.
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember right now.
Mr. McDONALD. What happened to that notebook?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't know.

Mr. McDONALD. Just 1 second.Mrs. Porter, we are speaking now of the notebook that Lee kept on the General Walker shooting.
Mrs. PORTER. OK.
Mr. McDONALD. And you testified that he brought the rifle home
a number of days after the incident.
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. And you were aware of this notebook that he kept.
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I tried to recall in my memory how these things did happen, and by now maybe I assumed some things, so really I just know it as a fact that Lee did try to attempt on life of General Walker. He told me about that and that is the fact. Details of it, I do not remember. I don't want to mislead you different direction.

Mrs. PORTER. Well, afterwards, of course, I was petrified, you know, for what he did. I was afraid and--I was waiting for the police to knock on our door any minute, so I probably even myself would be eager to destroy any evidence that lead to arrest of Lee.
Mr. McDONALD. Do you remember him destroying this notebook?
Mrs. PORTER. I do not remember right now.

Mr. McDONALD. Over the weeks after the Walker incident, did Lee ever express any views, any confident views, that he attempted to do something and did not get caught? In other words, did he ever say anything that the authorities just couldn't catch him, that he was too smart, something to that effect?

Mrs. PORTER. Well, he made kind of a joking remark about, after listening to the news, that all, everybody kept looking for the car, and he said Americans did not realize some people do walk, you know, so he said he just ran, walked away or ran away from the scene.

Marina tells us (through Priscilla) in this quote from “Marina and Lee”:

The Dallas papers of Thursday, April 11, ran front-page stories about the attempt on Walker’s life. Lee left the apartment to buy both morning and afternoon editions and lay on the sofa listening to news bulletins on the radio. It was reported that the police had identified the bullet as a 30.06. It was also reported that an aide to the general had noticed two men in a “late-model, unlicensed car” in the alley behind Walker’s house on the night of his return. After the shooting, a fourteen-year-old boy, Kirk Newman, who was a neighbor of Walker’s, claimed that he had seen two cars, one with one man in it, the other with several, speed away from the scene. Reading that, Lee roared with laughter. “Americans are so spoiled!” he said, proud of his escape. “It never occurs to them that you might use your own two legs. They always think you have a car. They chased a car. And here I am sitting here!” Once again he said that before any car left the scene, “my legs had carried me a long way.”2 Lee also laughed at the police identification of the badly smashed bullet.3 “They got the bullet—found it in the chimney,” he said. “They say I had a .30 caliber bullet when I didn’t at all. They’ve got the bullet and the rifle all wrong. Can’t even figure that out. What fools!”

[Martin Weidmann]

Yet, you are the one who began directing the conversation in this direction by acting like you knew something about his frame of mind...

 

We can form opinions about his frame of mind based on his actions. Do you have any credible evidence that Marina or Priscilla didn't tell the truth about LHO laughing at the newspaper reports on 4/11/63?

Yet, you are the one who began directing the conversation in this direction by acting like you knew something about his frame of mind...


Why do you lie? When in truth I merely asked you how you knew what Oswald's frame of mind was, after you made this comment; 

Furthermore, LHO was laughing at the cops because they apparently had no clue that he was the one shooting at Walker. His frame of mind was more like Alfred E. Newman’s (What, me worry).

I never acted like I knew something about his frame of mind! I just wondered if you had taken his frame of mind in account, because I seriously doubted that a person who had just tried to kill a man with a rifle, would risk transporting that same rifle in a duffelbag on public transport with the barrel sticking out? Doesn't consciousness of guilt have a way of influencing a person's behavior?

We can form opinions about his frame of mind based on his actions. Do you have any credible evidence that Marina or Priscilla didn't tell the truth about LHO laughing at the newspaper reports on 4/11/63?

Sure you can form opinions... In fact you constantly do. You have formed the opinion that PJM and her book are credible, that Marina told the truth about LHO laughing at media reports and that you can reach a conclusion about somebody's state of mind based on one event.

When you form your opinion "based on his actions", you are really forming an opinion merely on what others have told you and that, in my opinion, isn't a solid basis for forming opinions.

[Martin Weidmann]

Priscilla Johnson's account of what Marina told her about the Walker incident seems to be in accord with Marina's testimony about that episode.

IMO the account in "MARINA and LEE"  is true......

Mrs. PORTER. We did not have television. He turned the radio on later on, listened for the news, and it wasn't, nothing on.

Mr. McDONALD. You say he returned late that evening.

Mr. McDONALD. But it is your testimony he did not come home after work, before going out to try to shoot General Walker.
Mrs. PORTER. I really do not remember right now. He might, didn't come from work, or maybe he left and come back later.

Mr. McDONALD. When he returned that evening, about what time did he get back?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember the time. Quite late.

Mr. McDONALD. Was it early in the evening, late in the evening?
Mrs. PORTER. I assume it is very late in the evening.
Mr. McDONALD. Did he come in with the rifle?
Mrs. PORTER. No.
Mr. McDONALD. You specifically remember he did not have it?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, as I recall right now, I think a few days later,or the next day or 2 days later, he went and brought the rifle back in thehouse.
Mr. McDONALD. How did he bring it back? How did he carry it?
Mrs. PORTER. The same way he was taking it out, with the raincoat on.
Mr. McDONALD. With the raincoat?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes. Mr. McDONALD. Is this the way he would normally take the rifle out of the Neely Street apartment, under the raincoat?
Mrs. PORTER. When he went as he said practice, target practice---
Mr. McDONALD. Yes?
Mrs. PORTER [continuing]. That usually was the procedure.
Mr. McDONALD. But concerning the General Walker incident, do you remember the night, that night, when he came in pale? When he came in, did he have the raincoat on?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember. But as I recall right now, I think that he went and he hid the rifle somewhere else.

Mr. McDONALD. Did he seem pleased when he got home?
Mrs. PORTER. Pleased with what?
Mr. McDONALD. Pleased with what he had done?
Mrs. PORTER. No, he was just nervous and he was eager for listen to the news, but then he was disappointed.

Mr. McDONALD. You mentioned a note, he left you a note.
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. Where was this note left?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember right now, but I think it could be in the closet, on the table there.
Mr. McDONALD. I am sorry?
Mrs. PORTER. Maybe it is in the closet above his shelf or something like that.
Mr. McDONALD. You found this note before he returned? Did you find it before he returned?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so.
Mr. McDONALD. And what did it say?
Mrs. PORTER. What for me to do in case if he did not come back home.
Mr. McDONALD. And what specifically did it say?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, it was a key to the mailbox, post office mailbox, I think. I really don't remember what the note exactly said right now.
Mr. McDONALD. Was it written in his handwriting?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. And what did you do with the note when he returned home?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember.
Mr. McDONALD. Is that note in existence now?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't know.
Mr. McDONALD. Did Lee have a notebook, a book that he used to keep writings in, regarding General Walker?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so.
Mr. McDONALD. What do you remember about it?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, at the time when he was spending lots of time alone in the closet, I thought that he is writing, you know. I don't know, whatever it was, but I learn about that, that was something to do with General Walker. I learned about that later.
Mr. McDONALD. How did you learn about it?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember.
Mr. MCDONALD. Did he tell you?
Mrs. PORTER. Could have been.
Mr. McDONALD. You learned about it soon after the Walker incident? You learned about the notebook shortly after the Walker incident?
Mrs. PORTER. Probably.
Mr. McDONALD. So who else would be in a position to tell you what the notebook contained?
Mrs. PORTER. You--you probably have access to it.
Mr. McDONALD. No, no, I mean at that time.
Mrs. PORTER. Only Lee, yes, sir.
Mr. McDONALD. Do you recall if that notebook contained photographs?
Mrs. PORTER. I think so.
Mr. McDONALD. What did those photographs depict?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I remember now it looked like some kind of a house or a road or something like that of that nature, and if 1 asked him what it was, he said that is General Walker's house.
Mr. McDONALD. And were these photographs attached to a piece of paper, I mean a page of the notebook itself?.
Mrs. PORTER. I don't remember right now.
Mr. McDONALD. What happened to that notebook?
Mrs. PORTER. I don't know.

Mr. McDONALD. Just 1 second.Mrs. Porter, we are speaking now of the notebook that Lee kept on the General Walker shooting.
Mrs. PORTER. OK.
Mr. McDONALD. And you testified that he brought the rifle home
a number of days after the incident.
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. And you were aware of this notebook that he kept.
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I tried to recall in my memory how these things did happen, and by now maybe I assumed some things, so really I just know it as a fact that Lee did try to attempt on life of General Walker. He told me about that and that is the fact. Details of it, I do not remember. I don't want to mislead you different direction.

Mrs. PORTER. Well, afterwards, of course, I was petrified, you know, for what he did. I was afraid and--I was waiting for the police to knock on our door any minute, so I probably even myself would be eager to destroy any evidence that lead to arrest of Lee.
Mr. McDONALD. Do you remember him destroying this notebook?
Mrs. PORTER. I do not remember right now.

Mr. McDONALD. Over the weeks after the Walker incident, did Lee ever express any views, any confident views, that he attempted to do something and did not get caught? In other words, did he ever say anything that the authorities just couldn't catch him, that he was too smart, something to that effect?

Mrs. PORTER. Well, he made kind of a joking remark about, after listening to the news, that all, everybody kept looking for the car, and he said Americans did not realize some people do walk, you know, so he said he just ran, walked away or ran away from the scene.

Marina tells us (through Priscilla) in this quote from “Marina and Lee”:

The Dallas papers of Thursday, April 11, ran front-page stories about the attempt on Walker’s life. Lee left the apartment to buy both morning and afternoon editions and lay on the sofa listening to news bulletins on the radio. It was reported that the police had identified the bullet as a 30.06. It was also reported that an aide to the general had noticed two men in a “late-model, unlicensed car” in the alley behind Walker’s house on the night of his return. After the shooting, a fourteen-year-old boy, Kirk Newman, who was a neighbor of Walker’s, claimed that he had seen two cars, one with one man in it, the other with several, speed away from the scene. Reading that, Lee roared with laughter. “Americans are so spoiled!” he said, proud of his escape. “It never occurs to them that you might use your own two legs. They always think you have a car. They chased a car. And here I am sitting here!” Once again he said that before any car left the scene, “my legs had carried me a long way.”2 Lee also laughed at the police identification of the badly smashed bullet.3 “They got the bullet—found it in the chimney,” he said. “They say I had a .30 caliber bullet when I didn’t at all. They’ve got the bullet and the rifle all wrong. Can’t even figure that out. What fools!”

Fair enough. I actually have no opinion about the veracity either way, but I do have reservations about the source.

Having said that, what does Oswald's opinion about the media reports re the Walker shooting tell us about his frame of mind at the time he took the rifle to New Orleans on public transport?

[Charles Collins]

Yet, you are the one who began directing the conversation in this direction by acting like you knew something about his frame of mind...


Why do you lie? When in truth I merely asked you how you knew what Oswald's frame of mind was, after you made this comment; 

I never acted like I knew something about his frame of mind!

We can form opinions about his frame of mind based on his actions. Do you have any credible evidence that Marina or Priscilla didn't tell the truth about LHO laughing at the newspaper reports on 4/11/63?

Sure you can form opinions... In fact you constantly do. You have formed the opinion that PJM and her book are credible, that Marina told the truth about LHO laughing at media reports and that you can reach a conclusion about somebody's state of mind based on one event.

When you form your opinion "based on his actions", you are really forming an opinion merely on what others have told you and that, in my opinion, isn't a solid basis for forming opinions.

Why do you lie? When in truth I merely asked you how you knew what Oswald's frame of mind was, after you made this comment

I don't lie. But apparently you do. Here (again) is your post in which you begin to tell us about "Oswald's frame of mind":

You are missing the point. Sure, many people travel with firearms, but how many of those have just used that weapon to shoot somebody? It's about Oswald's frame of mind. Having just tried to kill a man with that rifle, would he risk transporting it in a duffelbag with the barrel sticking out? I seriously doubt it....

But it is once again clear that you are using biased speculation to try to shape the narrative towards your own opinion.

I never acted like I knew something about his frame of mind!

Yes you did. Your "I seriously doubt it" comment implies just that.

[Martin Weidmann]

Why do you lie? When in truth I merely asked you how you knew what Oswald's frame of mind was, after you made this comment

I don't lie. But apparently you do. Here (again) is your post in which you begin to tell us about "Oswald's frame of mind":


I never acted like I knew something about his frame of mind!

Yes you did. Your "I seriously doubt it" comment implies just that.

You wrote your post before I finished mine... Go back and read it again

And btw... when I say "I seriously doubt it" it means that I seriously doubt it. It doesn't mean that I claim to know anything with certainty. I just have doubts about it. So, stop reading something that isn't there!

I would prefer it greatly if you respond to what I actually write rather than to what you think it means what I have written. It makes for a better quality conversation!

[Charles Collins]

You wrote your post before I finished mine... Go back and read it again

And btw... when I say "I seriously doubt it" it means that I seriously doubt it. It doesn't mean that I claim to know anything with certainty. I just have doubts about it. So, stop reading something that isn't there!

You wrote your post before I finished mine... Go back and read it again


Yours was written 22 minutes before mine. Go back and read it again yourself...


And btw... when I say "I seriously doubt it" it means that I seriously doubt it. It doesn't mean that I claim to know anything with certainty. I just have doubts about it. So, stop reading something that isn't there!


I never implied that you knew anything with certainty. Stop reading something that isn't there yourself. Just acknowledge that you started the conversation in this direction as I indicated before. And that you are being hypocritical when you tell us what you doubt about Oswald's frame of mind, then turn right around and tell Walt that any attempt to crawl inside Oswald's mind is futile.

It has become obvious that any attempt to have a reasonable conversation with you is futile...

[John Iacoletti]

Charles, do you really not see the difference between a positive claim ("His frame of mind was X"), and skepticism towards that positive claim?  One is a knowledge claim and the other is not.

[Charles Collins]

Charles, do you really not see the difference between a positive claim ("His frame of mind was X"), and skepticism towards that positive claim?  One is a knowledge claim and the other is not.

His statement was prefaced with:

"It's about Oswald's frame of mind."

That implies that the following statement is what he thinks Oswald's frame of mind was. It appears to be based on what he would have done (or not done), not on the actual actions of LHO. At least what I opined was based on reality (LHO's actions).