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Author Topic: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.  (Read 96597 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #352 on: March 09, 2020, 11:57:23 AM »
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Here's a deal. I will if you attempt to answer my questions so far. Who discovered the bag? Did it occur before or after the discovery of the rifle? Who fingerprinted it? I feel the only way we can move forward it to have agreement on as many facts as possiblel

In this forum, agreement on much of anything doesn’t appear possible to me. It might help if you defined exactly what you are asking for. What do you mean by “discover”? Who first saw it? Or who first pointed it out to the others? Or who first unfolded it ( in order to determine that it actually was a long hand made bag?

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #352 on: March 09, 2020, 11:57:23 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #353 on: March 09, 2020, 12:06:48 PM »
In this forum, agreement on much of anything doesn’t appear possible to me. It might help if you defined exactly what you are asking for. What do you mean by “discover”? Who first saw it? Or who first pointed it out to the others? Or who first unfolded it ( in order to determine that it actually was a long hand made bag?

Who were the first individuals to consider the bag could have contained the rifle? Thing is Charles the WC narrative should be supported by as many facts as possible. From your read of statements and testimonies what do you believe the sequence of events was? Was that not the intention of the investigation, to determine the sequence of events?

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #354 on: March 09, 2020, 01:34:49 PM »
Who were the first individuals to consider the bag could have contained the rifle? Thing is Charles the WC narrative should be supported by as many facts as possible. From your read of statements and testimonies what do you believe the sequence of events was? Was that not the intention of the investigation, to determine the sequence of events?

Its purpose was to investigate the assassination of President John Fitzgerald Kennedy on November 22, 1963, at Dallas, Texas. President Johnson directed the Commission to evaluate matters relating to the assassination and the subsequent killing of the alleged assassin, and to report its findings and conclusions to him.

I doubt if the commission would have considered the answers to your questions necessary to be able to complete their evaluation. Hence I asked why you why you believe those answers are important.

I haven’t evaluated the statements and testimonies with your questions in mind. And I really don’t want to spend the time researching this right now without knowing why you believe the answers to your questions are so important.

Based on my memory (which isn’t infallible), I believe that the sequence was:

The empty rifle shells were first to be discovered. While processing the shells and the surrounding boxes, etc. the rifle was discovered by others in the opposite corner of the sixth floor. The examination of the evidence in the sniper’s nest was interrupted by the discovery of the rifle. Studebaker  returned to the sniper’s nest area after a cursory examination of the rifle. Day took the rifle to the identification lab then returned to the sniper’s nest. I believe that the bag was first considered to be a container for the rifle when Montgomery (and possibly Studebaker also, but most likely just Montgomery) picked it up and unfolded it sometime between the interruption by the discovery of the rifle and Day’s return from the lab.




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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #354 on: March 09, 2020, 01:34:49 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #355 on: March 09, 2020, 02:37:55 PM »
All the pedantic nitpicking in the world doesn't change the fact that a long bag was discovered next to the SN.  Oswald was seen that morning carrying a long bag.  His prints are on that bag which is next to some boxes that also had his prints and by the very window from which fired bullet casings from his rifle are found.  The police officers searching the floor - which is covered in boxes - are looking for a rifle or shooter.  Not necessarily a bag.  It is not necessary to reconstruct with absolute certainty who first "discovered" the bag whatever that means.  It was there.  It eventually came to the attention of someone while others may not have noticed it because of the extreme clutter on that floor.  It may have even been moved during the search itself before it dawned on someone that it could be linked to the crime. There is also often confusion in the record about which "bag" is being discussed - the long bag or lunch bag.  Witnesses use imprecise language in response to questions that are subject to subjective interpretation of their own imperfect recollection of times and events.  It may be impossible to reconstruct the "discovery" of the bag with absolute certainty but that itself does nothing to undermine the conclusion that it was there, has Oswald's prints on it, resembles the long bag he carried that morning, there is no accounting for a slightly shorter bag or any other similar long bag in the building along the lines Frazier estimated, Oswald denied carrying any long bag that day because he was lying, and is found not just at "Oswald's place of work" as sometimes dishonestly characterized but the exact crime scene within the building.  It has no apparent work-related purpose for being there and no one else with access to that floor ever comes forward to provide any explanation whatsoever for it to have been there.  It is a peculiar bag both due to its location, size, shape, and the fact that is homemade.  There are no pictures which depict any similar bags at use in the building for any work purpose.  It is clearly singular and related to the crime.  The notion that the DPD constructed it and then somehow confused a bag that they themselves made for a legitimate purpose to carry the rifle as evidence but then somehow forgot they did so and instead decided to lie about finding near the SN is absurd in my opinion.  The absence of a time machine to sort out exactly who first discovered it with absolute certainty is just an exercise in endless pedantic futility that changes nothing.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #356 on: March 09, 2020, 02:57:54 PM »
All the pedantic nitpicking in the world doesn't change the fact that a long bag was discovered next to the SN.  Oswald was seen that morning carrying a long bag.  His prints are on that bag which is next to some boxes that also had his prints and by the very window from which fired bullet casings from his rifle are found.  The police officers searching the floor - which is covered in boxes - are looking for a rifle or shooter.  Not necessarily a bag.  It is not necessary to reconstruct with absolute certainty who first "discovered" the bag whatever that means.  It was there.  It eventually came to the attention of someone while others may not have noticed it because of the extreme clutter on that floor.  It may have even been moved during the search itself before it dawned on someone that it could be linked to the crime. There is also often confusion in the record about which "bag" is being discussed - the long bag or lunch bag.  Witnesses use imprecise language in response to questions that are subject to subjective interpretation of their own imperfect recollection of times and events.  It may be impossible to reconstruct the "discovery" of the bag with absolute certainty but that itself does nothing to undermine the conclusion that it was there, has Oswald's prints on it, resembles the long bag he carried that morning, there is no accounting for a slightly shorter bag or any other similar long bag in the building along the lines Frazier estimated, Oswald denied carrying any long bag that day because he was lying, and is found not just at "Oswald's place of work" as sometimes dishonestly characterized but the exact crime scene within the building.  It has no apparent work-related purpose for being there and no one else with access to that floor ever comes forward to provide any explanation whatsoever for it to have been there.  It is a peculiar bag both due to its location, size, shape, and the fact that is homemade.  There are no pictures which depict any similar bags at use in the building for any work purpose.  It is clearly singular and related to the crime.  The notion that the DPD constructed it and then somehow confused a bag that they themselves made for a legitimate purpose to carry the rifle as evidence but then somehow forgot they did so and instead decided to lie about finding near the SN is absurd in my opinion.  The absence of a time machine to sort out exactly who first discovered it with absolute certainty is just an exercise in endless pedantic futility that changes nothing.

Colin believes that he has something. Just trying to find out what it is...

Shhhhh.....

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #356 on: March 09, 2020, 02:57:54 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #357 on: March 09, 2020, 04:23:17 PM »
All the pedantic nitpicking in the world doesn't change the fact that a long bag was discovered next to the SN. 

If you don’t know who found it or where it was found or when it was found, how could you possibly know it was discovered “next to the SN”?

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #358 on: March 09, 2020, 04:24:36 PM »
All the pedantic nitpicking in the world doesn't change the fact that a long bag was discovered next to the SN.  Oswald was seen that morning carrying a long bag.  His prints are on that bag which is next to some boxes that also had his prints and by the very window from which fired bullet casings from his rifle are found.  The police officers searching the floor - which is covered in boxes - are looking for a rifle or shooter.  Not necessarily a bag.  It is not necessary to reconstruct with absolute certainty who first "discovered" the bag whatever that means.  It was there.  It eventually came to the attention of someone while others may not have noticed it because of the extreme clutter on that floor.  It may have even been moved during the search itself before it dawned on someone that it could be linked to the crime. There is also often confusion in the record about which "bag" is being discussed - the long bag or lunch bag.  Witnesses use imprecise language in response to questions that are subject to subjective interpretation of their own imperfect recollection of times and events.  It may be impossible to reconstruct the "discovery" of the bag with absolute certainty but that itself does nothing to undermine the conclusion that it was there, has Oswald's prints on it, resembles the long bag he carried that morning, there is no accounting for a slightly shorter bag or any other similar long bag in the building along the lines Frazier estimated, Oswald denied carrying any long bag that day because he was lying, and is found not just at "Oswald's place of work" as sometimes dishonestly characterized but the exact crime scene within the building.  It has no apparent work-related purpose for being there and no one else with access to that floor ever comes forward to provide any explanation whatsoever for it to have been there.  It is a peculiar bag both due to its location, size, shape, and the fact that is homemade.  There are no pictures which depict any similar bags at use in the building for any work purpose.  It is clearly singular and related to the crime.  The notion that the DPD constructed it and then somehow confused a bag that they themselves made for a legitimate purpose to carry the rifle as evidence but then somehow forgot they did so and instead decided to lie about finding near the SN is absurd in my opinion.  The absence of a time machine to sort out exactly who first discovered it with absolute certainty is just an exercise in endless pedantic futility that changes nothing.



Chief Justice Warren:
"Now I think our job here is essentially one for the evaluation of evidence as distinguished from being one of gathering
evidence, and I believe at the outset at least we can start with the premise that we can rely upon the reports of the
various agencies that have been engaged in investigation of the matter, the FBI, the Secret Service, and others that I may
know about at the present time"



Gerald Ford:
"The FBI, and I use them as an example, undertook a very extensive investigation. I don't recall how many agents, but they had
a massive operation to investigate everything. The commission with this group of lawyers and some additional staff people, then
drew upon this information which was available, and we, if my memory serves me accurately, insisted that the FBI give us
everything they had. Now that is a comprehensive order from the Commission to the Director and to the FBI. I assume and I think
the Commission assumed that that order was so broad that if they had anything it was their obligation to submit it. Now if they
didn't, that is a failure on the part of the agencies, not on the part of the Commission."



Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #359 on: March 09, 2020, 04:34:30 PM »
11/23/63

Lyndon B. Johnson: Now, who is A. Hidell?

J. Edgar Hoover: A. Hidell is an alias that this man has used on other occasions, and according to the information we have from the
house in which he was living - his mother - he kept a rifle like this wrapped up in a blanket which he kept in the house. On the
morning that this incident occurred down there - yesterday - the man who drove him to the building where they work, the building from
where the shots came, said that he had a package wrapped up in paper...
But the important thing at the time is that the location of
the purchase of the gun by a money order apparently to the Klein Gun Company in Chicago - we were able to establish that last night.


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Re: Oswald's sack in the Sniper's nest.
« Reply #359 on: March 09, 2020, 04:34:30 PM »