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Online Charles Collins

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Fidel
« on: April 07, 2020, 01:42:47 PM »
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Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:

“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba

Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...

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Fidel
« on: April 07, 2020, 01:42:47 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2020, 02:51:54 PM »
Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:

“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba

Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...
I'll disagree that it was some sort of "smokescreen" or ruse to cover for his knowledge about the assassination - I think Oswald acted on his own volition - but I do agree that Castro was not exactly saddened over JFK's death. The radical publications that Oswald read were filled with stories quoting Castro's condemnation of JFK and the White House's policies towards Cuba.

And remember that just about one year before this - in October of 1962 - Castro communicated with Khrushchev during the missile crisis and begged him to launch his (Khrushchev's) nuclear missiles at the US. Here is Khrushchev's account about receiving the message:

"He [Castro] proposed that to prevent destruction of our missile installations, we should  immediately strike first, dealing a [preemptive] thermonuclear blow to the United States.

"When this message was read aloud to us, we sat there in silence, looking at one another for a long time. It became clear at that point that Fidel absolutely did not understand our intentions. He assumed....that we wanted to use Cuban territory as a base right up next to the United States to install our missiles and to strike a blow at the United States with those missiles. It's true of course that that was a very good forward position from which to strike a sudden surprise blow with missiles. But we
absolutely never wanted to make such a strike."  -Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev, Volume 3. pg. 341

I don't think that in a year that Castro's hatred towards the "imperialists" completely changed to the point that he was depressed over JFK's death.


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 04:24:24 PM »
Journalist Jean Daniel was with Fidel Castro when JFK was assassinated. Even though they had conversed the previous night from 10 pm until 4 am. Here is a quote of Castro from the all-night session:

“Kennedy could still be this man. He still has the possibility of becoming, in the eyes of history, the greatest President of the United States, the leader who may at last understand that there can be coexistence between capitalists and socialists, even in the Americas. He would then be an even greater President than Lincoln. I know, for example, that for Khrushchev, Kennedy is a man you can talk with. I have gotten this impression from all my conversations with Khrushchev. Other leaders have assured me that to attain this goal, we must first await his re-election. Personally, I consider him responsible for everything, but I will say this: he has come to understand many things over the past few months; and then too, in the last analysis, I’m convinced that anyone else would be worse.” Then Fidel had added with a broad and boyish grin: “If you see him again, you can tell him that I’m willing to declare Goldwater my friend if that will guarantee Kennedy’s re-election!”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/newrepublic.com/amp/article/120460/fidel-castro-reaction-kennedy-assassination-cuba

Fidel Castro reportedly knew that the Kennedy brothers were trying to assassinate him and overthrow his regime. In my opinion, this was deliberate smoke to cover that he knew an assassination attempt was going to happen the next day. I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...

 I can’t imagine that he actually meant this...

So on one hand you acknowledge that the assassination was a conspiracy.....( when you say that Castro knew an assassination attempt was going to happen) while on the other hand you think that Lee Oswald was just a lone nut who acted alone.....   

I must say, you're not a very rational thinker.



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Re: Fidel
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2020, 04:24:24 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2020, 05:24:15 PM »
I'll disagree that it was some sort of "smokescreen" or ruse to cover for his knowledge about the assassination - I think Oswald acted on his own volition - but I do agree that Castro was not exactly saddened over JFK's death. The radical publications that Oswald read were filled with stories quoting Castro's condemnation of JFK and the White House's policies towards Cuba.

And remember that just about one year before this - in October of 1962 - Castro communicated with Khrushchev during the missile crisis and begged him to launch his (Khrushchev's) nuclear missiles at the US. Here is Khrushchev's account about receiving the message:

"He [Castro] proposed that to prevent destruction of our missile installations, we should  immediately strike first, dealing a [preemptive] thermonuclear blow to the United States.

"When this message was read aloud to us, we sat there in silence, looking at one another for a long time. It became clear at that point that Fidel absolutely did not understand our intentions. He assumed....that we wanted to use Cuban territory as a base right up next to the United States to install our missiles and to strike a blow at the United States with those missiles. It's true of course that that was a very good forward position from which to strike a sudden surprise blow with missiles. But we
absolutely never wanted to make such a strike."  -Memoirs of Nikita Khrushchev, Volume 3. pg. 341

I don't think that in a year that Castro's hatred towards the "imperialists" completely changed to the point that he was depressed over JFK's death.


Castro was like many politicians, and sometimes said things that just weren’t true. Here’s a continuation of Jean Daniel’s article:

Now it was nearly 2 o’clock and we got up from the table and settled ourselves in front of a radio. Commandant Vallero, his physician, aide-de-camp, and intimate friend, was easily able to get the broadcasts from the NBC network in Miami. As the news came in, Vallero would translate it for Fidel: Kennedy wounded in the head; pursuit of the assassin; murder of a policeman; finally the fatal announcement: President Kennedy is dead. Then Fidel stood up and said to me: “Everything is changed. Everything is going to change. The United States occupies such a position in world affairs that the death of a President of that country affects millions of people in every corner of the globe. The cold war, relations with Russia, Latin America, Cuba, the Negro question… all will have to be rethought. I’ll tell you one thing: at least Kennedy was an enemy to whom we had become accustomed. This is a serious matter, an extremely serious matter.”

After the quarter-hour of silence observed by all the American radio stations, we once more tuned in on Miami; the silence had only been broken by a re-broadcasting of the American national anthem. Strange indeed was the impression made, on hearing this hymn ring out in the house of Fidel Castro, in the midst of a circle of worried faces. “Now,” Fidel said, “they will have to find the assassin quickly, but very quickly, otherwise, you watch and see, I know them, they will try to put the blame on us for this thing. But tell me, how many Presidents have been assassinated? Four? This is most disturbing! In Cuba, only one has been assassinated. You know, when we were hiding out in the Sierra there were some (not in my group, in another) who wanted to kill Batista. They thought they could do away with a regime by decapitating it. I have always been violently opposed to such methods. First of all from the viewpoint of political self-interest, because so far as Cuba is concerned, if Batista had been killed he would have been replaced by some military figure who would have tried to make the revolutionists pay for the martyrdom of the dictator. But I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”


The real Fidel Castro:

Quote from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:

“Fidel made his debut in Cuban politics by organizing the demonstration against Grau and his supposedly innocent increase in the bus fares. ...

...At this point, Fidel suddenly whispered to his coconspirators, "I have the formula to take power and once and for all get rid of this old son-of-a-As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day?  It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair.  His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate.  Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare.  There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'." His comrades were stupefied as he explained, "Now, when the old guy returns, let's pick him up, the four of us, and throw him off the balcony. Once the president is dead, we'll proclaim the triumph of the student revolution and speak to the people from the radio." "Vamos, guajiro, tú estás 'chiflado'" ("Listen, redneck, you're nuts"), Chino Esquivel told him. And when Fidel insisted on his astounding plan, Enrique Ovares finally squelched it by saying, "We came here to ask for a lowering of the fares on the buses, not to commit an assassination." It is important to remember that Grau, for all his faults, was not a dictator but one of Cuba's first democratically elected leaders.”

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2020, 05:38:36 PM »

Castro was like many politicians, and sometimes said things that just weren’t true. Here’s a continuation of Jean Daniel’s article:

Now it was nearly 2 o’clock and we got up from the table and settled ourselves in front of a radio. Commandant Vallero, his physician, aide-de-camp, and intimate friend, was easily able to get the broadcasts from the NBC network in Miami. As the news came in, Vallero would translate it for Fidel: Kennedy wounded in the head; pursuit of the assassin; murder of a policeman; finally the fatal announcement: President Kennedy is dead. Then Fidel stood up and said to me: “Everything is changed. Everything is going to change. The United States occupies such a position in world affairs that the death of a President of that country affects millions of people in every corner of the globe. The cold war, relations with Russia, Latin America, Cuba, the Negro question… all will have to be rethought. I’ll tell you one thing: at least Kennedy was an enemy to whom we had become accustomed. This is a serious matter, an extremely serious matter.”

After the quarter-hour of silence observed by all the American radio stations, we once more tuned in on Miami; the silence had only been broken by a re-broadcasting of the American national anthem. Strange indeed was the impression made, on hearing this hymn ring out in the house of Fidel Castro, in the midst of a circle of worried faces. “Now,” Fidel said, “they will have to find the assassin quickly, but very quickly, otherwise, you watch and see, I know them, they will try to put the blame on us for this thing. But tell me, how many Presidents have been assassinated? Four? This is most disturbing! In Cuba, only one has been assassinated. You know, when we were hiding out in the Sierra there were some (not in my group, in another) who wanted to kill Batista. They thought they could do away with a regime by decapitating it. I have always been violently opposed to such methods. First of all from the viewpoint of political self-interest, because so far as Cuba is concerned, if Batista had been killed he would have been replaced by some military figure who would have tried to make the revolutionists pay for the martyrdom of the dictator. But I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”


The real Fidel Castro:

Quote from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:

“Fidel made his debut in Cuban politics by organizing the demonstration against Grau and his supposedly innocent increase in the bus fares. ...

...At this point, Fidel suddenly whispered to his coconspirators, "I have the formula to take power and once and for all get rid of this old son-of-a-As I was walking a' alane, I heard twa corbies makin' a mane. The tane untae the tither did say, Whaur sail we gang and dine the day, O. Whaur sail we gang and dine the day?  It's in ahint yon auld fail dyke I wot there lies a new slain knight; And naebody kens that he lies there But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair, O. But his hawk and his hound, and his lady fair.  His hound is to the hunting gane His hawk to fetch the wild-fowl hame, His lady ta'en anither mate, So we may mak' our dinner swate, O. So we may mak' our dinner swate.  Ye'll sit on his white hause-bane, And I'll pike oot his bonny blue e'en Wi' ae lock o' his gowden hair We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare, O. We'll theek oor nest when it grows bare.  There's mony a ane for him maks mane But nane sail ken whaur he is gane O'er his white banes when they are bare The wind sail blaw for evermair, O. The wind sail blaw for evermair.'." His comrades were stupefied as he explained, "Now, when the old guy returns, let's pick him up, the four of us, and throw him off the balcony. Once the president is dead, we'll proclaim the triumph of the student revolution and speak to the people from the radio." "Vamos, guajiro, tú estás 'chiflado'" ("Listen, redneck, you're nuts"), Chino Esquivel told him. And when Fidel insisted on his astounding plan, Enrique Ovares finally squelched it by saying, "We came here to ask for a lowering of the fares on the buses, not to commit an assassination." It is important to remember that Grau, for all his faults, was not a dictator but one of Cuba's first democratically elected leaders.”

Believe it or Not......

"I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”...Fidel Castro


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Fidel
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2020, 05:38:36 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2020, 05:54:32 PM »
Believe it or Not......

"I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”...Fidel Castro


“Now, when the old guy returns, let's pick him up, the four of us, and throw him off the balcony. Once the president is dead, we'll proclaim the triumph of the student revolution and speak to the people from the radio.”

Fidel Castro

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2020, 09:01:22 PM »
Believe it or Not......

"I was also opposed to it on personal grounds; assassination is repellent to me.”...Fidel Castro

From “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer:

“LATE IN THE AFTERNOON one day in December 1946, Fidel suddenly appeared at the door of Rafael Díaz-Balart's apartment in Havana. His clothes were even more disheveled than usual and his face had the expression of a man reeling at the edge. "Rafael, let me in," he blurted out, "I just killed Leonel Gómez."  ...

... Only a few weeks before, Rafael recalled, Fidel had told him, as they engaged in one of their endlessly intense conversations about power and political position, that Leonel Gómez and Manolo Castro, two recognized and particularly violent leaders of opposing student gangs, were his "obstacles."

Rafael had shaken his head and disagreed. "No," he told him, "not Manolo. The obstacle is Leonel Gómez, because he is going to win the student federation elections." Fidel agreed and insisted suddenly that an attack had to be prepared on Leonel Gómez, but Rafael never dreamed he would carry out such a harebrained plan. Macho talk like that was cheap at the university of the time.  ...

... When the car turned around, the three started to fire wildly and several persons walking below were wounded. But Fidel's eyes gleamed. He was perfectly calm then, he told Rafael. He took aim and he shot. Within minutes, the assassination of Leonel Gómez was announced agitatedly on the radio and Fidel had fled to Rafael's uneasy sanctuary.  ...

... For the truth was that Leonel Gómez did not die. Fidel had shot him in the lung, but he survived after some time in the hospital. Gómez gave Fidel's name, as well as that of Chino Esquivel, to the UIR as those responsible for the attack.”

Assassination was Fidel’s middle name!!!

Offline Gerry Down

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2020, 02:14:58 PM »
I don't think that in a year that Castro's hatred towards the "imperialists" completely changed to the point that he was depressed over JFK's death.

Prob scared he'd get the same fate as Hitler and Mussolini if he was blamed for JFKs death.

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2020, 02:14:58 PM »