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Author Topic: Fidel  (Read 10866 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2020, 01:40:58 PM »
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Really,??  Cuba was a threat to the US??  I don thank sooo....

This passage from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer might enlighten you just a little bit:

“One of the most unbelievable events of Castro's entire courtship of these Americans occurred in 1977, during the days of the Jimmy Carter administration, when talk was in the air in Washington about a new opening to Cuba. Castro caught the spirit of the moment and sent a message to Senator Frank Church, then head of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that if he came to Cuba, the U.S. administration would be "pleased with the results of the visit." After meeting with Secretary of State Cyrus Vance, Senator Church and his team drew up a list of items they wanted from Castro, which included the release of thirty Americans from Cuban jails and assurances that Cuba would withdraw from its African adventures. Then they boarded the backup plane for Air Force One, the same plane that had carried John F. Kennedy's lifeless body and the hopes of the American nation from Dallas to Washington after the assassination, and flew off to Havana. They considered the deliberate choice of this plane as a kind of gift of high respect for Castro.  ...

...Finally, Castro suggested that he come aboard the American plane — he wanted to see it. Once on board, they sipped piña coladas, and Church aide Mark Moran took a picture of Castro sitting in the president's chair, because "Fidel specifically wanted his picture taken while he was sitting in the chair." While there, Moran recalled, "Fidel was shown the phone with the red button for war, and the green button used to call the president in the White House directly." Cuba was never more surreal than at the moment when the Cuban leader, whose involvement in the death of John Kennedy has never been seriously dismissed, sat in the American president's chair in the plane that had so mournfully carried John Kennedy's dead body!“

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2020, 01:40:58 PM »


Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #41 on: April 17, 2020, 01:03:18 AM »
This passage from “Guerrilla Prince” by Georgie Anne Geyer might enlighten you just a little bit:

“One of the most unbelievable events of Castro's entire courtship of these Americans occurred in 1977, during the days of the Jimmy Carter administration, when talk was in the air in Washington about a new opening to Cuba. Castro caught the spirit of the moment and sent a message to Senator Frank Church, then head of the powerful Senate Foreign Relations Committee, that if he came to Cuba, the U.S. administration would be "pleased with the results of the visit." After meeting with Secretary of State Cyrus Vance, Senator Church and his team drew up a list of items they wanted from Castro, which included the release of thirty Americans from Cuban jails and assurances that Cuba would withdraw from its African adventures. Then they boarded the backup plane for Air Force One, the same plane that had carried John F. Kennedy's lifeless body and the hopes of the American nation from Dallas to Washington after the assassination, and flew off to Havana. They considered the deliberate choice of this plane as a kind of gift of high respect for Castro.  ...

...Finally, Castro suggested that he come aboard the American plane — he wanted to see it. Once on board, they sipped piña coladas, and Church aide Mark Moran took a picture of Castro sitting in the president's chair, because "Fidel specifically wanted his picture taken while he was sitting in the chair." While there, Moran recalled, "Fidel was shown the phone with the red button for war, and the green button used to call the president in the White House directly." Cuba was never more surreal than at the moment when the Cuban leader, whose involvement in the death of John Kennedy has never been seriously dismissed, sat in the American president's chair in the plane that had so mournfully carried John Kennedy's dead body!“
Well, that certainly proves Oswald acted alone, and the Magic Bullet is a certainty.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2020, 01:13:03 PM »
Well, that certainly proves Oswald acted alone, and the Magic Bullet is a certainty.

Castro must have been pleasantly surprised by the way that critics have focused on these types of items. (Which kept their attention away from him!)

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2020, 01:13:03 PM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #43 on: April 18, 2020, 02:17:39 PM »
"Cui Bono"?

food for thought

before 11/22/63




after 11/22/63





Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2020, 02:33:03 PM »
"Cui Bono"?

food for thought

before 11/22/63




after 11/22/63


Had to look up the meaning:

cui bo·no?
/kwē ˈbōnō/
exclamation
who stands, or stood, to gain (from a crime, and so might have been responsible for it)?


Yes, I agree, Castro stood to gain. (Provided he could plausibly deny responsibility.) In my opinion, Castro could have considered it self defense...

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #44 on: April 18, 2020, 02:33:03 PM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #45 on: April 18, 2020, 03:02:34 PM »
Had to look up the meaning:

cui bo·no?
/kwē ˈbōnō/
exclamation
who stands, or stood, to gain (from a crime, and so might have been responsible for it)?


Yes, I agree, Castro stood to gain. (Provided he could plausibly deny responsibility.) In my opinion, Castro could have considered it self defense...

Thinking out loud.

If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #46 on: April 18, 2020, 04:39:27 PM »
Thinking out loud.

If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.


If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.


Or, the willing domestic opponent found Castro. In 1959, in southern California, LHO reportedly made contact with the Cubans and his desire to go to Cuba to help Castro could have been communicated.



Reports of Castro's newfound "best buddy," Khrushchev, were most likely seen by LHO in the newspapers, and this relationship could have been a part of LHO's desire to go to Russia. Some of Castro's intelligence agents were reportedly trained in Minsk while LHO was there. It is feasible that LHO had some contact with some of the Cuban agents in Minsk. And they could have convinced LHO that he could best support Castro's regime from the USA, hence his desire to go back.

Although the idea of a Texas trip for JFK had already been tossed around for a while, actual planning began in June of 1963. Castro had at least one spy that was reportedly placed in a high position in the pentagon. It is possible that word of a Texas trip in the planning stages reached this spy between June and the end of September (when LHO went to Mexico City). Therefore when LHO tried (in vain) to go to Cuba through Mexico City, they might have convinced him to go back and stay around Dallas in hopes that he could make an assassination attempt when the JFK visit happened. If LHO, while in Mexico City, had told them about his attempt on Walker (as part of his resume), they might have realized that he had the capacity to take on the task of an attempt on JFK (as a lone assassin).

Just as LHO apparently "fell into the lap" of Castro at the opportune time; the employment at the TSBD and the motorcade route in front of the TSBD apparently "fell into the lap" of LHO at the opportune time. LHO had the phone number of Duran and, once everything became apparent and he had devised his plan, all he needed to do was call her and let her know to be watching...


The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.


I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2020, 04:40:50 PM by Charles Collins »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2020, 06:11:24 PM »

If Castro was involved I don't think it would have been directly. Most likely is he would have used a page from the CIA's play book and found a willing domestic opponent.
The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.


Or, the willing domestic opponent found Castro. In 1959, in southern California, LHO reportedly made contact with the Cubans and his desire to go to Cuba to help Castro could have been communicated.



Reports of Castro's newfound "best buddy," Khrushchev, were most likely seen by LHO in the newspapers, and this relationship could have been a part of LHO's desire to go to Russia. Some of Castro's intelligence agents were reportedly trained in Minsk while LHO was there. It is feasible that LHO had some contact with some of the Cuban agents in Minsk. And they could have convinced LHO that he could best support Castro's regime from the USA, hence his desire to go back.

Although the idea of a Texas trip for JFK had already been tossed around for a while, actual planning began in June of 1963. Castro had at least one spy that was reportedly placed in a high position in the pentagon. It is possible that word of a Texas trip in the planning stages reached this spy between June and the end of September (when LHO went to Mexico City). Therefore when LHO tried (in vain) to go to Cuba through Mexico City, they might have convinced him to go back and stay around Dallas in hopes that he could make an assassination attempt when the JFK visit happened. If LHO, while in Mexico City, had told them about his attempt on Walker (as part of his resume), they might have realized that he had the capacity to take on the task of an attempt on JFK (as a lone assassin).

Just as LHO apparently "fell into the lap" of Castro at the opportune time; the employment at the TSBD and the motorcade route in front of the TSBD apparently "fell into the lap" of LHO at the opportune time. LHO had the phone number of Duran and, once everything became apparent and he had devised his plan, all he needed to do was call her and let her know to be watching...


The domestic conspirators duplicitously accept Castro's assistance.
Plan "B", if the attempt on JFK fails, the blame falls on the Cubans with LHO a willing accomplice. The Carcano in the TSBD leads to Ozzie, the Mauser to the Cubans.
Plan "A", if the attempt succeeds, the LN patsy takes the blame.


I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance.

"I haven't seen any evidence of others shooting at JFK in Dealey Plaza that day. I believe LHO was capable and acted without assistance."

You most likely weren't in DP at 12:30pm on 11/22/63.
Here are a few that were.

TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN TSBD

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=40392&relPageId=44

1.  Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2.  Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3.  Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4.  O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5.  Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6.  Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7.  Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8.  Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9.  Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right   front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on                  Triple Underpass). 
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
    (He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)

41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins

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Re: Fidel
« Reply #47 on: April 18, 2020, 06:11:24 PM »