The real 6th floor shooter - what chance of escape?

[Gerry Down]

They didn't see or hear Oswald on the stairs because he had descended them well before they did.

They descended the stairs after Oswald. Thats how Vicky Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Bill Shelley proved Adams needed to go buy a new watch.

[Robert Reeves]

They descended the stairs after Oswald. Thats how Vicky Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Bill Shelley proved Adams needed to go buy a new watch.

No, it just makes the Warren Commission's 90 second window, or less, infeasible for Oswald. Nobody saw or heard Oswald. Vicky Adam's story has corroboration -- but was ignored.



Why were crucial witnesses 'on the stairs' ignored and not involved in the recreation? why did their testimony get rejected & criticized?

Didn't Adams tell author Barry Ernst she saw an ''African-American employee'' at the bottom of the stairs?. Not Shelley. She suggested FBI altered her statement. I believe that.

[Jerry Freeman]

  If not Oswald, someone who used Oswald's rifle to assassinate President Kennedy.

Try that again. If it wasn't Oswald it must have been someone else who was shooting with the Carcano?
Why? There was absolutely no evidence that the Carcano was fired that day.

There was a 6th floor TSBD shooter -- Oswald or a hit-man. He would have had the same difficulties that Oswald did in escaping the crime scene. For all claims of "impossibility" for Oswald being the assassin, the real 6th floor shooter is equally affected.

"The real 6th floor shooter"? Is that an admission that Oswald was not?

No professional hit-man would accept a contract to assassinate President Kennedy. The chance of committing the crime and avoiding capture is so slight that no amount of money would be worth the risk...There would need to be accomplices

Right. And there were...Dallas cops. What better cover than that

[Martin Weidmann]

They descended the stairs after Oswald. Thats how Vicky Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Bill Shelley proved Adams needed to go buy a new watch.

Shelley proved no such thing;

Mr. BALL - Did you see Vickie Adams after you came into the building and did you see her on the first floor?
Mr. SHELLEY - I sure don't remember.
Mr. BALL - You don't.
Mr. SHELLEY - No.

and neither did Billy Lovelady, who remarkably without being asked about Victoria Adams volunteered the following;

Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. BALL - What is her full name?
Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know.
Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams?
Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear.

Not only did Shelley and Lovelady not confirm the alleged encounter with Victoria Adams, but, according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.

Obviously, Baker and Truly had already seen Oswald on the second floor before they came up to the 4th floor.

[Walt Cakebread]

Shelley proved no such thing;

Mr. BALL - Did you see Vickie Adams after you came into the building and did you see her on the first floor?
Mr. SHELLEY - I sure don't remember.
Mr. BALL - You don't.
Mr. SHELLEY - No.

and neither did Billy Lovelady, who remarkably without being asked about Victoria Adams volunteered the following;

Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?
Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.
Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?
Mr. LOVELADY - The girl that works for Scott, Foresman.
Mr. BALL - What is her full name?
Mr. LOVELADY - I wouldn't know.
Mr. BALL - Vickie Adams?
Mr. LOVELADY - I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Would you say it was Vickie you saw?
Mr. LOVELADY - I couldn't swear.

Not only did Shelley and Lovelady not confirm the alleged encounter with Victoria Adams, but, according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.

Obviously, Baker and Truly had already seen Oswald on the second floor before they came up to the 4th floor.

according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.


I'm not looking to challenge you....But I simply find it unbelievable that Adams and Stroud could have gone down those stairs before Truly and Baker went up those stairs.   UNLESS.....  The WC "reenactment"  is a pile of BS.( a distinct probability )    The WC claimed that  Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom about 70 seconds after the first shot was fired.   That means that Adams and Stroud had to have descended the stairs about 30 seconds after the first shot was fired and IF that's true they would have had to have encountered Lee Oswald if he had been on the stairs.   

[Martin Weidmann]

according to the Stroud letter, her supervisor Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that the girls went down before Truly and the policeman (Baker) came up.


I'm not looking to challenge you....But I simply find it unbelievable that Adams and Stroud could have gone down those stairs before Truly and Baker went up those stairs.   UNLESS.....  The WC "reenactment"  is a pile of BS.( a distinct probability )    The WC claimed that  Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom about 70 seconds after the first shot was fired.   That means that Adams and Stroud had to have descended the stairs about 30 seconds after the first shot was fired and IF that's true they would have had to have encountered Lee Oswald if he had been on the stairs.

You wouldn't be challenging me, Walt. You'd be challenging Dorothy Garner. She was there, and considering that Rankin did absolutely nothing with the Stroud letter should tell you something about the validity of Garner's observation.

That means that Adams and Stroud had to have descended the stairs about 30 seconds after the first shot was fired and IF that's true they would have had to have encountered Lee Oswald if he had been on the stairs.

Indeed, they should have encountered Oswald if he had been there. That's a mighty big if. The WC did not leave Adams and Styles out of their "reenactment" for nothing.

[Gerry Down]

Indeed, they should have encountered Oswald if he had been there. That's a mighty big if. The WC did not leave Adams and Styles out of their "reenactment" for nothing.

Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Thus she refuted her own claim.

[Martin Weidmann]

Adams saw Bill Shelley when she came down. Thus she refuted her own claim.

Actually, no she didn't. She told Barry Ernest that she never saw Shelley and when she learned that it was in her WC testimony that she had encountered Shelley at the bottom of the stairs she denied ever having said that during her testimony.

Without corroboration from Shelley and/or Lovelady, what you've got is a contradiction between what's in Adams' testimony and what she told Barry Ernest.

And then of course there is the Stroud letter which confirms that Dorothy Garner told Barefoot Sanders that she saw Baker and Truly come up after the girls (Adams & Styles) went down. That of course makes an encounter with Shelley impossible as he and Lovelady were outside when the shots were fired and both first ran to the other side of the building before going back in. There is a time gap there that needs to be explained.

Ignoring parts of the evidence that you don't like is never a good way to come to the correct conclusion.