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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade  (Read 36858 times)

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2020, 07:23:49 PM »
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Neither.

Then how will you know if it's accurate?

--  MWT  ;)

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2020, 07:23:49 PM »


Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2020, 07:32:36 PM »
Then how will you know if it's accurate?

--  MWT  ;)

You keep asking questions, trying to deflect from what is quite a simple point, that a suggestion was made (not by you) that stopping to wipe finger prints from the rifle would mean Oswald needed to fly down the stairs rather than take a brisk walk. I am asking for a fact to support that suggestion. If you can't provide one I'm not sure why you are commenting or what you are trying to achieve.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 07:59:11 PM by Nicholas Turner »

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2020, 10:05:14 PM »
You keep asking questions, trying to deflect from what is quite a simple point, that a suggestion was made (not by you) that stopping to wipe finger prints from the rifle would mean Oswald needed to fly down the stairs rather than take a brisk walk. I am asking for a fact to support that suggestion. If you can't provide one I'm not sure why you are commenting or what you are trying to achieve.

You should be asking why flying down the stairs automatically makes you winded? Don't get hung up on semantics. My "guessitmate" that Oswald was moving quickly down the stairs was because approx. 90 seconds after the shots rang out, Oswald was encountered in the second-floor lunchroom by Dallas police officer Marrion L, who did not notice that Oswald was winded. Obviously I can't prove it was impossible for Oswald to have done that, only that IMO it was improbable. The onus is on you to rebuke my guessimate by demonstrating it was possible. Otherwise, I'm not married to it and it doesn't make Oswald a LN by default.

If you can take 3 shots, wipe down the rifle of all your prints, ditch it as shown in the Alyea film and get to the 2nd floor in 90 seconds I will concede that it was possible. But I still wouldn't believe that's how it went down because that's just 1 piece of  evidence, of many, that casts doubt on Oswald being the shooter. So instead of tying myself into knots trying to make the LN narrative fit, I go with Occam's Razor and the patsy hypothesis fits like a glove. But that's JMHO, believe what you like.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2020, 10:05:14 PM »


Offline Royell Storing

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2020, 10:24:33 PM »
You keep asking questions, trying to deflect from what is quite a simple point, that a suggestion was made (not by you) that stopping to wipe finger prints from the rifle would mean Oswald needed to fly down the stairs rather than take a brisk walk. I am asking for a fact to support that suggestion. If you can't provide one I'm not sure why you are commenting or what you are trying to achieve.

   Let's Not forget that Before "flying down the stairs", Oswald had to travel Kitty-corner across the entire 6th floor from: (1) the Snipers Nest, to (2) the Hidey Slot, to (3) the Stairwell. There also were numerous stacks of books in addition to assorted bric-a-brac scattered all over/across that entire 6th Floor. Going from the Sniper's Nest and traveling Kitty-corner completely across the 6th Floor was not a simple Point A-To-Point B stroll. 

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2020, 04:41:10 AM »
   Let's Not forget that Before "flying down the stairs", Oswald had to travel Kitty-corner across the entire 6th floor from: (1) the Snipers Nest, to (2) the Hidey Slot, to (3) the Stairwell. There also were numerous stacks of books in addition to assorted bric-a-brac scattered all over/across that entire 6th Floor. Going from the Sniper's Nest and traveling Kitty-corner completely across the 6th Floor was not a simple Point A-To-Point B stroll.

Wasn't someone filmed doing it within a "workable" amount of time in a simulated setting?

One minute?

Minute-and-a-half?

(Going from memory, here.)

--  MWT  ;)

Ah, yes.  Here it is.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 04:54:43 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2020, 04:41:10 AM »


Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2020, 05:47:57 AM »
You should be asking why flying down the stairs automatically makes you winded? Don't get hung up on semantics. My "guessitmate" that Oswald was moving quickly down the stairs was because approx. 90 seconds after the shots rang out, Oswald was encountered in the second-floor lunchroom by Dallas police officer Marrion L, who did not notice that Oswald was winded. Obviously I can't prove it was impossible for Oswald to have done that, only that IMO it was improbable. The onus is on you to rebuke my guessimate by demonstrating it was possible. Otherwise, I'm not married to it and it doesn't make Oswald a LN by default.

If you can take 3 shots, wipe down the rifle of all your prints, ditch it as shown in the Alyea film and get to the 2nd floor in 90 seconds I will concede that it was possible. But I still wouldn't believe that's how it went down because that's just 1 piece of  evidence, of many, that casts doubt on Oswald being the shooter. So instead of tying myself into knots trying to make the LN narrative fit, I go with Occam's Razor and the patsy hypothesis fits like a glove. But that's JMHO, believe what you like.

There is no onus on me because I've not make a suggestion or claim that it is possible. The onus is on those that make a suggestion. I referred to a reenactment which showed the journey could be done in around 50 seconds at a brisk steady pace but beyond that made no claim. I have never attempted to wipe finger prints from a rifle but since you gave a suggestion for the time involved in doing this assumed you had some knowledge rather than were just expressing an opinion hence my question.

I find it interesting that people seem to want to pick up on any word or phrase used by witnesses etc and analyse it to death but then feel they can make comments on here based on their opinions and then when asked to back it up they argue semantics and try to push the burden of proof onto those asking for supporting evidence. Happens on both sides of the debate and guess it comes with the territory.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 06:07:26 AM by Nicholas Turner »

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2020, 05:59:43 AM »
Wasn't someone filmed doing it within a "workable" amount of time in a simulated setting?

One minute?

Minute-and-a-half?

(Going from memory, here.)

--  MWT  ;)

Ah, yes.  Here it is.


That's the reenactment I was referring to. Completed in less than 50 seconds at a steady pace and not winded. Suggests that being seen on the second floor 90 seconds after the last shot would have been possible if this reenactment is accurate.

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2020, 06:02:21 AM »
There is no onus on me because I've not make a suggestion or claim that it is possible. The onus is on those that make a suggestion.

Nick,

How long do you think it took Oswald to do the actual hiding of the carbine?  Ten seconds?

How much longer did it take him to wipe down the carbine (even if he did that)?  Another ten seconds?

If so, then he still had plenty of time to get to the Second Floor Lunch Room on a non-huffing and puffing way before Truly arrived on the second floor landing (followed by Baker), according to the video I posted above.

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 06:06:36 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2020, 06:02:21 AM »