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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade  (Read 35746 times)

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2020, 07:20:45 PM »
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A refreshing response, sir!  Thumb1:

Thanks  :)

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2020, 07:20:45 PM »


Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #57 on: May 16, 2020, 07:35:11 PM »
Thanks  :)

Gag me with a spoon.

--  MWT ;)

PS  How's that thinking about it coming along?

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2020, 07:36:56 PM »
There is no onus on me because I've not make a suggestion or claim that it is possible. The onus is on those that make a suggestion. I referred to a reenactment which showed the journey could be done in around 50 seconds at a brisk steady pace but beyond that made no claim. I have never attempted to wipe finger prints from a rifle but since you gave a suggestion for the time involved in doing this assumed you had some knowledge rather than were just expressing an opinion hence my question.

Since this is a game of rhetoric, if you are a LNer then, yes the onus is on you to demonstrate that it was possible. No one can prove it can't be done. Otherwise, I don't understand your position except you seem to doubt that Oswald didn't have enough time to get to the 2nd floor in 90 seconds. I never claimed it was impossible. I only commented that the time to wipe off his prints were not taken into consideration during any re-enactments. I assumed the added time would force Oswald to make up the time by "flying" down the stairs. You claimed that an actor did it walking briskly in 50 seconds, without any substantiation. So you are implying that it took 40 seconds to wipe off the prints and ditch the rifle. Did the actor also take change from his pocket and get a coke from a vending machine? How many seconds did that add? Where is YOUR evidence that all that could have been accomplished in 90 secs? How much "brisker" did he have to walk for him to be winded? See, it's a game of rhetoric.

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I find it interesting that people seem to want to pick up on any word or phrase used by witnesses etc and analyse it to death but then feel they can make comments on here based on their opinions and then when asked to back it up they argue semantics and try to push the burden of proof onto those asking for supporting evidence. Happens on both sides of the debate and guess it comes with the territory.

Why were you so defensive re my response? I answered your rhetorical questions didn't I? Wasn't it obvious that I was speculating? Did you think I needed to back up my speculation with an experiment? You are trying to rebut my opinion with semantics and claims of your own. So counter my opinion with your own facts and evidence. I doubt Oswald could have done it all in 90 seconds. My reasoning was that it takes extra time to wipe down the rifle of all prints, which IMO took longer than 40 seconds. Your only rebut was "back it up". But in lieu of any experiments to re-enact this feat, you were asking me to prove a negative, which is impossible. So yes, the onus is on you LNers to demonstrate that it was possible via re-enactment and back up your opinion. And if you can't do it, then it supports my opinion. But opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and LNers will never change theirs.

How many failed re-enactments would it take for you to change your opinion that it was impossible for Oswald to get to the 2nd floor from the SN in 90 seconds? (rhetorical)

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2020, 07:36:56 PM »


Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2020, 07:55:27 PM »
Since this is a game of rhetoric, if you are a LNer then, yes the onus is on you to demonstrate that it was possible. No one can prove it can't be done. Otherwise, I don't understand your position except you seem to doubt that Oswald didn't have enough time to get to the 2nd floor in 90 seconds. I never claimed it was impossible. I only commented that the time to wipe off his prints were not taken into consideration during any re-enactments. I assumed the added time would force Oswald to make up the time by "flying" down the stairs. You claimed that an actor did it walking briskly in 50 seconds, without any substantiation. So you are implying that it took 40 seconds to wipe off the prints and ditch the rifle. Did the actor also take change from his pocket and get a coke from a vending machine? How many seconds did that add? Where is YOUR evidence that all that could have been accomplished in 90 secs? How much "brisker" did he have to walk for him to be winded? See, it's a game of rhetoric.

Why were you so defensive re my response? I answered your rhetorical questions didn't I? Wasn't it obvious that I was speculating? Did you think I needed to back up my speculation with an experiment? You are trying to rebut my opinion with semantics and claims of your own. So counter my opinion with your own facts and evidence. I doubt Oswald could have done it all in 90 seconds. My reasoning was that it takes extra time to wipe down the rifle of all prints, which IMO took longer than 40 seconds. Your only rebut was "back it up". But in lieu of any experiments to re-enact this feat, you were asking me to prove a negative, which is impossible. So yes, the onus is on you LNers to demonstrate that it was possible via re-enactment and back up your opinion. And if you can't do it, then it supports my opinion. But opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and LNers will never change theirs.

How many failed re-enactments would it take for you to change your opinion that it was impossible for Oswald to get to the 2nd floor from the SN in 90 seconds? (rhetorical)

if you are a LNer then, yes the onus is on you to demonstrate that it was possible.

I haven't made any claims so don't have to demonstrate anything.

You claimed that an actor did it walking briskly in 50 seconds, without any substantiation.

I referred to a reenactment I had seen, which was subsequently posted in this thread. As I said, I didn't know how accurate it was.

You are trying to rebut my opinion with semantics and claims of your own.

I have claimed nothing.

Wasn't it obvious that I was speculating?

No.

and LNers will never change theirs.

Says the person who asked why I was being defensive about your response.

Seems to apply to lots of people, not just LNers.


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2020, 08:11:21 PM »
if you are a LNer then, yes the onus is on you to demonstrate that it was possible.

I haven't made any claims so don't have to demonstrate anything.

You claimed that an actor did it walking briskly in 50 seconds, without any substantiation.

I referred to a reenactment I had seen, which was subsequently posted in this thread. As I said, I didn't know how accurate it was.

You are trying to rebut my opinion with semantics and claims of your own.

I have claimed nothing.

Wasn't it obvious that I was speculating?

No.

and LNers will never change theirs.

Says the person who asked why I was being defensive about your response.

Seems to apply to lots of people, not just LNers.

Ok, do you have an opinion, at least? You can always change my mind with facts, logic and critical thinking. How about you? Are you a LNer?

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2020, 08:11:21 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2020, 08:20:49 PM »
Friends, since the sensational unearthing of Agent Hosty's interrogation notes--------------------



-------------------the debate between LNers and CTers boils down to one core question:

Whose story do we believe, that told by Mr Oswald or that told by his accusers?

For five-and-a-half decades, we didn't have Mr Oswald's story. Now we do!

Mr Oswald: I visited the lunchroom on the second floor before the P. parade
Accusers: He visited the lunchroom on the second floor after the P. parade

Mr Oswald: I went outside to watch the P. parade
Accusers: He fired bullets from the sixth-floor window during the P. parade


As you reflect on this choice, I invite you to set aside momentarily what you think you know and simply consider the following:

The authorities went out of their way to suppress Mr Oswald's story, misrepresenting his most basic claims about his movements and whereabouts at the all-important time.

What can it have been about these claims that frightened them so much they had to keep them from the public?

 Thumb1:

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2020, 08:30:40 PM »
Alan Thumb1:

I've always wondered how much coke was left in Oswald's bottle before Baker saw him on the 2nd floor.

Offline Nicholas Turner

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2020, 08:37:43 PM »
Ok, do you have an opinion, at least? You can always change my mind with facts, logic and critical thinking. How about you? Are you a LNer?

I'm not wedded to any theory but over the years have tended to find the one that says Lee Harvey Oswald did it and wasn't part of a conspiracy to be the most convincing. I'm interested in the topic and am open to new evidence and arguments, such as the Hosty note, and accept that there are questions and doubts about the official story.

It just seems to me that there is a lot of opinion and speculation presented as fact, or presented with the 'if you can't see this you are stupid or gullible' implication and sometimes that frustrates me as I want to learn more not get into debates. But by posting, I did  :(
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 08:46:42 PM by Nicholas Turner »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2020, 08:37:43 PM »