Cowlick Vs Occipital Protuberance

[Thomas Graves]

I disagree with you and I think most people on this.

There was no chip of concrete that was sent flying from the curb. There was only a lead smear on the corner of the curb. That is something many people have agree on.

Click on the picture below to see the curb with the lead smear:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/images/smear.htm

And the lead smear was not caused by a bullet, in all probability. This is where I disagree with most people.

If it was caused by a bullet, how was it, by sheer coincidence, that a bullet just happened to hit directly on the corner of the curb. The odds are roughly 25 to 1, that the bullet fragment would strike right on the corner, and not an inch or two beyond it or below it. Or at least miss by a quarter of an inch. Such a coincidence should not be accepted if there is some other way the lead smear could have gotten on the location without a coincidence. If there was some way a lead object could have been guided precisely there. And there is such a way.

Thousands of cars pass this curb each day. If one of them drifted out of its lane, the tire would bump against the curb. The rim of the curb could guide a lead balancing weight precisely to the corner of the curb.

Indeed, in the picture of the curb which is now stored at the National Archives:



One can even see curved lines marking the curb. One of these curved lines point right at the lead smear.

Another coincidence? Or was this curved line made by the rim of a car’s tire, and the rim guided the lead balancing weight right to the corner where some of the lead was rubbed off.


Question for anyone:

How did the bullet fragment cause a curved mark on the curb that points right at the lead smear it made?

Or was this curve mark unrelated to the bullet and it just happens to point at the lead smear by coincidence. And the lead smear itself just happens to be on the corner of the curb, again, by coincidence.

Joe, et al.,

How do you know that Tague's wound wasn't caused by a bullet that had lost its copper jacket when it glanced the mast arm of the traffic light, and then ricocheted off the concrete near the manhole cover, and finally hit the curb and fragmented, wounding Tague with one of the fragments?

It's a plausible scenario in that: 1) one of the four (iirc) Carcano bullets Max Holland's crew fired at a mast-like metal pipe did lose its copper jacket in a glancing blow, 2) the fact that the three spent shells in in the Sniper's Lair were found to be in a pattern that suggested that one of those three bullets had been fired at a much sharper down-angle, i.e., when the limo was almost directly below the window (i.e., when the mast arm would have been directly in the assassin's firing line), 3) the line segments representing that bullet's flight from the window to the mast arm to the man hole cover to the curb was plausibly straight or "direct," and 4) both Amos Euins and Patricia Ann Donaldson (nee Lawrence) told Max Holland in so many words that when they heard the first shot, the limo had just passed a particular highway sign pole on the "island," which correlates well with point #2, above.

--  MWT

[John Iacoletti]

All results are equally likely in a lottery. But not in a bullet strike on a curb.

With a bullet or a bullet fragment travelling at a shallow angle, under 45 degrees relative to the horizon, a strike on the vertical face of the curb is the most likely result. The second most probable result is a strike to the top of the curb. The least likely result is a strike right on the corner of the curb.

This is not true, and it’s your fatal flaw. It’s a random event. No specific spot is any more likely than any other specific spot.

Tague did not see something hit that spot.

My mistake. Tague said that the patrolman who talked to him “saw something fly off back on the street". And then they saw a fresh mark there on the curb.

He felt the sting of the fragment on his cheek and someone else noticed blood. Only then did a search for a bullet strike occur. Whatever they found, they were incline to interpret the find as a bullet strike, if at all plausible. People often spot what they expect to find.

Isn’t that what you are doing — interpreting the marks you see on the curb as it now exists as tire rim marks?

[Joe Elliott]

Joe, et al.,

How do you know that Tague's wound wasn't caused by a bullet that had lost its copper jacket when it glanced the mast arm of the traffic light, and then ricocheted off the concrete near the manhole cover, and finally hit the curb and fragmented, wounding Tague with one of the fragments?

It's a plausible scenario in that: 1) one of the four (iirc) Carcano bullets Max Holland's crew fired at a mast-like metal pipe did lose its copper jacket in a glancing blow, 2) the fact that the three spent shells in in the Sniper's Lair were found to be in a pattern that suggested that one of those three bullets had been fired at a much sharper down-angle, i.e., when the limo was almost directly below the window (i.e., when the mast arm would have been directly in the assassin's firing line), 3) the line segments representing that bullet's flight from the window to the mast arm to the man hole cover to the curb was plausibly straight or "direct," and 4) both Amos Euins and Patricia Ann Donaldson (nee Lawrence) told Max Holland in so many words that when they heard the first shot, the limo had just passed a particular highway sign pole on the "island," which correlates well with point #2, above.

--  MWT

I don’t know. But I find it unlikely that Oswald fired a bullet that early because:

•   The angular speed of the target would be very high. Even with a limited speed just coming off the sharp turn, the limousine would be moving at almost right angles as seen from Oswald’s position. The angular speed would be, at 5 mph about 5.25 degrees per second and at even 3 mph, 3.15 degrees per second.
•   I think the boxes would be in the way of that shot. 60 feet up, the target about, what, 30 horizontal feet away. That would be shooting down at an angle of 63 degrees. I think the boxes would be in the way. Even with the boxes out of the way, I think it would require the upper portion of his body to be hanging out of the window. And he would be not nearly so will hidden if he just stays back a bit and waits a few more seconds.

[Joe Elliott]

This is not true, and it’s your fatal flaw. It’s a random event. No specific spot is any more likely than any other specific spot.

My mistake. Tague said that the patrolman who talked to him “saw something fly off back on the street". And then they saw a fresh mark there on the curb.

Isn’t that what you are doing — interpreting the marks you see on the curb as it now exists as tire rim marks?

You are referring to James Tague’s Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. TAGUE. Right. Going on Elm. So I stood there looking around. I looked up---there was a motorcycle policeman, and he stopped and had drawn his gun and was running up the embankment toward the railroad tracks. A crowd of people; several people, were starting to come down into that area where he was running, and the people pointing, and excitement up there and so on, and about that time a patrolman who evidently had been stationed under the triple underpass walked up and said, "What happened?" and I said, "I don't know; something."
And we walked up to the---by this time the motorcycle policeman returned back close to where his motorcycle was, and we walked up there and there was a man standing there. Seeing that he was very excited--I don't remember his name at the time I did have it on the tip of my tongue very excited saying he was watching the President and it seemed like his head just exploded. This was a couple or 3 minutes after this happened. And the patrolman said, "Well, I saw something fly off back on the street."
We walked back down there, and another man joined us who identified himself as the deputy sheriff, who was in civilian clothes, and I guess this was 3 or 4 minutes after. I don't know how to gage time on something like that.

First of all, this is second hand information. We don’t have testimony from the police officer saying this but just Mr. Tague’s recollection that this was said.

More importantly, Mr. Tague did not say the police officer said “I saw something fly back on the street from where you found the lead smear”. At the time, no one had found the lead smear, so the police officer could not have known about that. The police officer said “and it seemed like his head just exploded” followed by "Well, I saw something fly off back on the street." Most likely talking about seeing a part of JFK’s head, bone fragment or brain tissues, fly off and land on the street.

Question:

What makes you think the policeman’s statement is about something flying back from the curb and not something flying back off of JFK’s head?

[John Iacoletti]

You are referring to James Tague’s Warren Commission testimony:

First of all, this is second hand information. We don’t have testimony from the police officer saying this but just Mr. Tague’s recollection that this was said.

Fair enough. Do you have any-hand information that a tire rim rubbed a lead balancing weight there or did you see some scratches on a photo of the removed section of curb?

What makes you think the policeman’s statement is about something flying back from the curb and not something flying back off of JFK’s head?

Because right after he mentions that statement about the policeman seeing something fly off, he says “And I says, "Well, you know now, I recall something sting me on the face while I was standing down there.“

[Thomas Graves]

I don’t know. But I find it unlikely that Oswald fired a bullet that early because:

•   The angular speed of the target would be very high. Even with a limited speed just coming off the sharp turn, the limousine would be moving at almost right angles as seen from Oswald’s position. The angular speed would be, at 5 mph about 5.25 degrees per second and at even 3 mph, 3.15 degrees per second.
•   I think the boxes would be in the way of that shot. 60 feet up, the target about, what, 30 horizontal feet away. That would be shooting down at an angle of 63 degrees. I think the boxes would be in the way. Even with the boxes out of the way, I think it would require the upper portion of his body to be hanging out of the window. And he would be not nearly so will hidden if he just stays back a bit and waits a few more seconds.

In Max Holland's mocked-up, laser-measured reenactment of the shooting of that first shot at about 1.4 seconds before Zapruder resumed filming at Z-133, ... the boxes were not in the way.

If you were the assassin up there at that window and ... 1) not wanting to shoot while the limo was still on Houston Street for fear of being spotted and shot while in the act of shooting, ... and ... 2) you knew there was a big oak tree partially obscuring Elm Street from your view, ... I think you'd be tempted to squeeze of a shot before the limo disappeared behind the tree, knowing that you'd probably be able to get off one or two more shots if, by some miracle, you missed on that "easy", five-miles-per-hour, reach-out-and-touch-somebody one.

-- MWT 

[Gary Craig]

"Moved it"? What... did they alter the visual record? Because the visual record supports what the Clark Panel concluded.

Reflecting the scalp to expose the EOP region requires a lot of effort, such as severing of attachments. None of that is mentioned in the autopsy report or their testimonies.

Finck thought there was (or there should have been in retrospect) a photo of the bared entry wound. But they only photographed the entry wound with ther scalp over it. They wanted to preserve the President's body as much as possible.



They stood by Humes' word that he felt some bump under the scalp he--it is my belief--mistook for the EOP. None of them saw the bared scalp wound relative to the bared EOP. In fact Humes measured the scalp wound from the skull's midline, a line not generally visible on the exterior of the occipital bone. The parietal bone, however, exhibits a prominent suture line along the skull's midline.

The skull had numerous fractures radiating from the skull in-shoot. Could have been a fracture edge that Humes mistook for the EOP "bump".

I believe they based it more so on what the lateral X-ray of the skull showed.

     

   "The position of this wound corresponds to the hole
     in the skull seen in the lateral X-ray film #2.

    "On one of the lateral films of the skull (#2), a hole
     measuring approximately 8 mm. in diameter on the
     outer surface of the skull and as much as 20 mm.
     on the internal surface can be seen in profile
     approximately 100 mm. above the external occipital
     protuberance. The bone of the lower edge of the
     hole is depressed."

Geeze. Even a non-doctor sitting at home in isolation during a pandemic, distracted by the protest coverage on TV, can easily find support for the WCR-LN head shot.

"Logical conclusion"? LOL

Blah, blah, blah and more blah.

Bottom line, the original autopsy doctors, you know the ones who held JFK's skull in their hands, found a through and through bullet hole

slightly above and slightly to the right of the EOP. Low in the back of the skull.

The Clark Panel found a trail of metal particles across the top of JFK's skull. Indicating a bullet wound there. High on the skull at the

cowlick.

Evidence of at least 2 bullets striking JFK in the head.

[John Tonkovich]

Blah, blah, blah and more blah.

Bottom line, the original autopsy doctors, you know the ones who held JFK's skull in their hands, found a through and through bullet hole

slightly above and slightly to the right of the EOP. Low in the back of the skull.

The Clark Panel found a trail of metal particles across the top of JFK's skull. Indicating a bullet wound there. High on the skull at the

cowlick.

Evidence of at least 2 bullets striking JFK in the head.

Thank you. Two shots to the head.