If Oswald Was The Assassin, Did He Plan His Escape From The TSBD Very Well?

[Gerry Down]

39:10 did not see Belknap ambulance

HSCA interview

Still looking but it appears that Frazier did not venture onto the steps until after most of the other employees. This included Arce who claimed to have eaten lunch with Dougherty.

I don't think Frazier had any interest in what was going on. After the shots were fired, he went down to the basement to eat a sandwich while all hell was breaking loose above him.

I'd say he would have gone back to work if he was left.

[Colin Crow]

I don't think Frazier had any interest in what was going on. After the shots were fired, he went down to the basement to eat a sandwich while all hell was breaking loose above him.

I'd say he would have gone back to work if he was left.

Interesting to speculate what he would have done. We know he was one of the first to leave. It seems just after his details were taken he departed. Fritz asked Senkel to round up all those who had been on the 6th floor that morning and take them for questioning. This happened about the time of the rifle discovery. When Truly told Fritz that Oswald was missing. It would seem that Frazier had departed by then as he had been on the 6th floor that morning and Williams, Lovelady, Shelley, Arce and Dougherty were all taken for statements. Do you think he would have been allowed to leave the building if Fritz knew he had provided Oswald a ride to work that morning? 

Then again, he had good reason to leave. He wanted to visit his abusive step-father in hospital.

[Dan O'meara]

Alan, the 2 people are likely Jarman and Norman who arrived around 12.25. Before they arrived the windows were closed so it is likely that Rowland looked back around the time of the ambulance leaving (12.25).

Agreed. Also, Rowland talks about the black male he sees in the snipers nest (who he describes as 'elderly but also notes " I didn't pay very much attention to him")around the same time (12:15 pm) as he sees the white male with the rifle. The black male is there until the motorcade reaches Main and Elvary which ties in very nicely with Jarman and Norman heading for the fifth after hearing the motorcade is on Main. The 'elderly' black male in the snipers nest at 12:15 must surely be Bonnie Ray Williams. That he is in the snipers nest and up on the 6th floor with a man holding a rifle points to William's heavy involvement in the assassination. This is reflected in the 'extreme inconsistencies' in his various statements, inconsistencies that display a particular pattern.
In his affidavit given on the day of the assassination Williams specifically distances himself from being on the 6th floor. He does not tell the truth about his movements leading up to the assassination (something he is never questioned about):

"We worked up until about 10 minutes to 12. Then we went downstairs. We rode the elevator to the 1st floor and got our lunches. I went back on the 5th floor with a fellow called Hank and Junior, I don't know his last name. Just after we got on the 5th floor we saw the President coming around the corner on Houston from Main Street."

It is difficult to imagine this is a 'misrememberance' rather than an outright lie. If it were not for the fact that Bonnie Ray left his lunch on the 6th floor there is a strong chance he would never have been placed there. Once Williams admits he was on the 6th having his lunch he appears embark on a campaign to minimise the time spent there. After each questioning this time gets longer and longer:

22nd November affidavit - is not on 6th floor having lunch
23rd November - tells FBI he stayed on 6th floor for 3 minutes
14th January - Carter and Griffin report Williams went down to 5th floor at 12:05
Warren Commission testimony -
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was.
Mr. BALL. Approximately what time was it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Approximately 12:20, maybe.

The evolution of his statements regarding how long it was before he went down to the 5th floor have a specific pattern - 0, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes. We can synchronise Williams arrival time on the 5th with the statement of Hank Norman to find it is more like 12:29. It can be stated with some confidence Williams is involved in the assassination.

I'm not sure why you have Dougherty using the elevators after Jarman and Norman. How would he have time to collect stock on the 6th floor and make his way down to the 5th floor in the time allotted by the testimonies. If it's a question of Truly calling the elevator then I think an examination of Truly's actions with Baker might be beneficial.

[Colin Crow]

Agreed. Also, Rowland talks about the black male he sees in the snipers nest (who he describes as 'elderly but also notes " I didn't pay very much attention to him")around the same time (12:15 pm) as he sees the white male with the rifle. The black male is there until the motorcade reaches Main and Elvary which ties in very nicely with Jarman and Norman heading for the fifth after hearing the motorcade is on Main. The 'elderly' black male in the snipers nest at 12:15 must surely be Bonnie Ray Williams. That he is in the snipers nest and up on the 6th floor with a man holding a rifle points to William's heavy involvement in the assassination. This is reflected in the 'extreme inconsistencies' in his various statements, inconsistencies that display a particular pattern.
In his affidavit given on the day of the assassination Williams specifically distances himself from being on the 6th floor. He does not tell the truth about his movements leading up to the assassination (something he is never questioned about):

"We worked up until about 10 minutes to 12. Then we went downstairs. We rode the elevator to the 1st floor and got our lunches. I went back on the 5th floor with a fellow called Hank and Junior, I don't know his last name. Just after we got on the 5th floor we saw the President coming around the corner on Houston from Main Street."

It is difficult to imagine this is a 'misrememberance' rather than an outright lie. If it were not for the fact that Bonnie Ray left his lunch on the 6th floor there is a strong chance he would never have been placed there. Once Williams admits he was on the 6th having his lunch he appears embark on a campaign to minimise the time spent there. After each questioning this time gets longer and longer:

22nd November affidavit - is not on 6th floor having lunch
23rd November - tells FBI he stayed on 6th floor for 3 minutes
14th January - Carter and Griffin report Williams went down to 5th floor at 12:05
Warren Commission testimony -
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was.
Mr. BALL. Approximately what time was it?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Approximately 12:20, maybe.

The evolution of his statements regarding how long it was before he went down to the 5th floor have a specific pattern - 0, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes. We can synchronise Williams arrival time on the 5th with the statement of Hank Norman to find it is more like 12:29. It can be stated with some confidence Williams is involved in the assassination.

I'm not sure why you have Dougherty using the elevators after Jarman and Norman. How would he have time to collect stock on the 6th floor and make his way down to the 5th floor in the time allotted by the testimonies. If it's a question of Truly calling the elevator then I think an examination of Truly's actions with Baker might be beneficial.

Dan, the official version works for Jack using the west elevator after Jarman and Norman. It is what can be inferred from the final versions offered. Jack admitted not closing the gates. Of course the WR did not want BRW on the 6th floor after 12.15.

See if you can find anything from Jarman and Norman prior to their testimonies before the WC that indicates Williams did not take the elevator up with them. Why would they both fail to tell authorities he didn’t go up with them for months? Their statements are only consistent with Williams' initial statement to the DPD. He told police he rode up with them at the time Oswald was brought in to the DPD in custody.

[Alan Ford]

Alan, the 2 people are likely Jarman and Norman who arrived around 12.25. Before they arrived the windows were closed so it is likely that Rowland looked back around the time of the ambulance leaving (12.25).

Hmmm... Not so sure why this is 'likely', Mr Crow. Mr Rowland gives to understand that he saw two black men (and possibly a white man) at that fifth-floor window much earlier than that:

1. He timestamps his sighting of the man with the rifle at "about 15 or 16 after 12"

2. Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. My wife and I were both looking and making remarks that the people were hanging out the windows I think the majority of them were colored people, some of them were hanging out the windows to their waist, such as this. We made several remarks to this fact, and then she started watching the colored boy, and I continued to look, and then I saw the man with the rifle.

Also--------------how do we know window(s) "B" was/were closed between noon and Messrs Jarman and Norman's arrival?

 

[Alan Ford]

See if you can find anything from Jarman and Norman prior to their testimonies before the WC that indicates Williams did not take the elevator up with them. Why would they both fail to tell authorities he didn’t go up with them for months? Their statements are only consistent with Williams' initial statement to the DPD. He told police he rode up with them at the time Oswald was brought in to the DPD in custody.

Note also the positively Williams-esque lie about timeframe!

[Alan Ford]

I suspect that Mr Williams, and perhaps others, did indeed go back up to the sixth floor, as per the agreed (innocent) arrangement described by Mr Williams-----------

Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.

------------only to be met by someone waving credentials and informing them that (for 'security reasons') the floor was out of bounds until after the motorcade.

I think Mr Williams, whatever he saw in those minutes, was quite innocent of any prior involvement in the assassination------------and came out of the experience quite terrified. (He looks v. upset as he sits in the back of the squad car.)

Cf! from Mr Roy Truly's testimony:

"I do know that they have been rather, as the expression goes, shook up about this thing, especially this tall one, Bonnie Williams. He is pretty superstitious, I would say."

This is Mr "Except for my niggers the boys are conservative, like me" Truly's way of saying 'If that n----- tells you guys anything troubling, take it with a pinch of salt'.

[Colin Crow]

Note also the positively Williams-esque lie about timeframe!

Thanks Alan, not sure why I don’t have that one in my notes. I might argue that it is not entirely clear. He has an earlier statement in December that claims they all rode up together. Do you have the complete Jan 14 record? I would appreciate a full copy.

AFFIDAVIT
State of Texas
County of Dallas
City of Dallas
I Harold Norman, wish to make the following statement to Special Agents William Carter and Arthur W. Blake, United States Secret Service.
I am 25 years of age, and I live at 4858 Beulah Street, Dallas, Texas. I do not have a telephone at my residence. I have been employed as an order filler at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas for about three years.
I was acquainted with Lee Oswald during the time that he was employed at this company, but I never did get to know him well. I have spoken to him briefly to say "Hello" or in connection with my work, but I never carried on any conversations with him. He did not mix with the employees and did not appear to want to make friends with me or any of the others. I never saw him at any time other than in the building at work.
On the 22nd of November, 1963, to the best of my memory, the last time I saw him was about 10:00 A.M. when we were both working on the first floor of the building. I did not speak to him at that time.
About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me. We took a position in the south-east corner of the building on the fifth floor and I was looking out the window which is closest to the east end of the building overlooking Elm Street.
Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I also could hear the bolt action of the rifle. I saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me. I saw all of the people down on the street rut towards the west side of the building, so I went to that side with Williams and Jarman, and looked out the west side window. We discussed the shots, and where they had come from and decided we better go down stairs. We walked down the stairs to the first floor and did not see anyone else on the stairway as we went down. From the time of the shots until we started down-stairs was about five minutes.
I have read over the above statement and it is the truth to the best of my knowledge.
/s/Harold Norman
Harold Norman
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 4th day of December, 1963.
/s/William N. Carter

Something similar appears in his SS summary that appears as part of CD87.