A scientific look at the Single Bullet Theory.

[John Iacoletti]

It would be interesting if someone could show that it was not Oswald's writing.

You can show whatever it is you're biased to show with handwriting "analysis".

But it would not change the evidence that Klein's received a paid order with Oswald's address, that it recorded C2766 as filling that order to send to Oswald's box no.

Since there is no evidence of such a package ever being shipped through the postal service or actually delivered to that post office in Dallas or actually picked up by Oswald or anybody else, then it's nothing but an assumption that he ever did.

  and that Oswald held a rifle that cannot be distinguished from C2766 a few days after it should have arrived at the Dallas Post office if it had been sent as Klein's records showed.

The rifle in the photo "cannot be distinguished" from lots of potential rifles.  That means absolutely nothing.

You seem to think that Klein's records have no evidentiary value.

It depends what it  is you're trying to use them as evidence for.  They don't tell you, for example, who shot the president.

  I suspect that if Klein's records showed that C2766 was used to fill an order for a rifle to be sent to a PO Box belonging to a CIA agent, you would be insisting that Klein's records provided very good evidence (which, of course, would be true).

I suspect that making up strawman arguments is a poor method of argumentation.

They don't say that. They say that it was used to fill an order to be sent to Oswald's PO Box.

And you're also implicitly assuming that Lee Oswald was necessarily the only person with physical access to PO Box 2915.  Even if it was delivered there (and there's no evidence of such), that doesn't mean Lee Oswald picked it up.

[Nicholas Turner]

The single bullet theory is completely false and a lie on the part of Arlen Specter and the Warren Commission.

One only has to look at the reports of forensic doctors and the FBI to realize that, in truth, a bullet came out of Kennedy's back after a cardiac massage. President Kennedy was wounded in the throat by a shot from in front. Then by a shot to the back, between the right shoulder blade and the spine at the level of the third thoracic vertebrae. The shot came from Saul, from the 2nd floor of the County Records Building. The reports available at The National Archives contradict the single bullet theory.

Don't think so.

[Andrew Mason]

The single bullet theory is completely false and a lie on the part of Arlen Specter and the Warren Commission.

I agree with the first part - that the SBT is false, but Arlen Specter and others acted in good faith in putting the theory forward.  They were convinced partly by what they saw in the zfilm and by the FBI (Robert Frazier) that Gov. Connally was reacting to being hit by the bullet that struck him in the back/armpit by z240 but probably more convinced because they could find no other explanation for where the bullet that passed through JFK's neck went after it exited JFK's throat.  There was no evidence that it struck inside the car, so they concluded it had to have hit Gov. Connally.  That was a reasonable conclusion.  The first shot SBT is a plausible theory and that does appear to be the version favoured by the WC.  Since the WC, however, the SBT has evolved into "certainty" that it was the first shot that missed and the second shot that struck both JFK and Gov. Connally.  That theory is at odds with large bodies of consistent evidence (the evidence of 20+ witnesses that the first shot struck JFK as he reacted immediately to it as if he was hit by it (no smiling and waving for several seconds afterward); that the second shot was after the midpoint between 1 and 3 and, therefore, only one shot before z250; that the first shot was after z186 and before z202; that the second shot was just before Greer turned around for the first time (he turns around from z276-280).   As a result, the only shot that could have passed through JFK and struck Gov. Connally is the first shot.

One only has to look at the reports of forensic doctors and the FBI to realize that, in truth, a bullet came out of Kennedy's back after a cardiac massage. President Kennedy was wounded in the throat by a shot from in front. Then by a shot to the back, between the right shoulder blade and the spine at the level of the third thoracic vertebrae. The shot came from Saul, from the 2nd floor of the County Records Building. The reports available at The National Archives contradict the single bullet theory.[/font][/size][/color]

Apart from the virtual impossibility that JFK's neck could have stopped that bullet, there is absolutely no evidence that the bullet CE399 came from the stretcher or table on which JFK was placed.  There is evidence that it came from the stretcher used by Gov. Connally.  The evidence puts Connally's stretcher in the same second floor location of the stretcher on which CE399 was found (it fell to the floor after the stretcher was moved). JFK's stretcher was never taken to the second floor). If you conclude that it had to be on one of those two stretchers (which, in my view, absent evidence that it was planted, is the only reasonable conclusion), then it came from Gov. Connally.

[John Iacoletti]

The evidence puts Connally's stretcher in the same second floor location of the stretcher on which CE399 was found (it fell to the floor after the stretcher was moved). JFK's stretcher was never taken to the second floor). If you conclude that it had to be on one of those two stretchers (which, in my view, absent evidence that it was planted, is the only reasonable conclusion), then it came from Gov. Connally.

Or the unrelated stretcher that Tomlinson said the bullet came from.  A bullet which may or may not have been CE 399.

[Andrew Mason]

On the other hand, you're a little off topic here.

Most of this thread is "off topic". But the issue of where CE399 came from is actually related to the SBT.  The SBT says that CE399 was the single bullet that caused all of JFK's and Gov. Connally's non-fatal injuries (ie. all the damage except the head shot).  If it came from JFK's back, that would eliminate the possiblity that it also struck Gov. Connally.

Nevertheless, I can add the fact that in reality, exhibit CE-399 is actually the last projectile fired at Dealey Plaza. It was fired from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository by Lee Harvey Oswald. His bullet hit the concrete next to the sewer plate, then ricocheted and fell back into the grass of Dealey Plaza. (Z-401 & Z-402). The bullet will then be recovered by the investigators. So it has absolutely nothing to do with Kennedy and Connally's injuries.

If a pristine 6.5 mm rifle bullet travelling at anything close to 2000 feet/sec. struck concrete and deflected and then slowed down enough to land on the grass in Dealey Plaza, it must have deposited most of its energy in the concrete that it struck and in deforming itself.  Both the concrete and the bullet would show this. The pressure on the nose of the bullet striking the concrete would be far greater than the copper jacket and lead core could withstand and the bullet nose would yield to that pressure and show obvious signs of the impact. There are no such signs on the bullet.  There is no evidence of a strike on the concrete either.  There is rather strong evidence that the head shot was the last of three shots.  There is evidence that a fragment from the second shot struck James Tague.  He was standing about 300 feet from the limo at the time of the third shot and directly in line with the 6th floor sniper's nest and the limo.  So the evidence is against CE399 being the second or third shot. CE399 is consistent with a shot passing through JFK and then striking something that did not immediately slow or stop it but allowed it to come to a more gradual stop (such as a glancing strike, butt-first striking something hard enough to dent the base and penetrating enough flesh/muscle sufficient to stop it over some distance).

[Nicholas Turner]

You have zero argument. So I take your answer and put it directly in the garbage

Feel free.

[Susan Wilde]

Oh, sorry. I thought you wanted to use a science approach.

I can't tell when JFK started to react because I can't see that he is not already reacting before he emerges from behind the sign. I would need evidence that he is not already reacting. But the zfilm shows significant change in both hand positions betwen z200 and z222. There are many witnesses who observed that JFK changed his hand positions in response to the first shot. And there is quite a bit of evidence that the first shot was after z186.

I would also need evidence to show that JFK's dramatic reaction seen from z226 and following wa necessarily the immediate initial reaction. It could be a gagging reaction due the difficulty in breathing resulting from the damage to his airway. We do know that humans normally take about 12 to 20 breaths per minute so a gagging reaction could start a couple of seconds after sustaining the injury.

Yes, correct Mr. Mason.

For persons who have the best, clearest Zapruder frames for study (I do), it is easy to see that JFK, very suddenly, superfast snaps his head  90 to 100 degrees  within only  3  Zapruder frames
 (equaling a superfast 0.16 second), from his looking  90 degrees to his direct right @ Z-203,  to his looking directly forward/a bit left of center by Z-206.

That same JFK  superfast head snap reaction (equaling a head snap superfast speed of 549 to 610 degrees per second)  that started @ Z-203/204 is,  without question,  JFK's first superfast response to his being first impacted with a bullet, at the latest,  @ Z-198/199.

Additionally, the WC documented for us that @ Z-198/199,  JFK was  still hidden by the large oak tree,  still  hidden out of the targeting view,  to  anyone  in the WC's, supposed, lone nut snipers lair!

That shot that first impacted JFK by Z-198/199  was triggered by another assassin who fired from a location where the large oak tree did  not block JFK..

[Andrew Mason]

Additionally, the WC documented for us that @ Z-198/199,  JFK was  still hidden by the large oak tree,  still  hidden out of the targeting view,  to  anyone  in the WC's, supposed, lone nut snipers lair!

That shot that first impacted JFK by Z-198/199  was triggered by another assassin who fired from a location where the large oak tree did  not block JFK..[/b]

The WC was wrong on that point. JFK was clear of the oak tree when he was mid-way between the lamppost and the Thornton freeway sign on the north side of Elm St. :



The zfilm shows he was at that point at z195.

The WC should have paid attention to the Secret Service film made in early December 1963 which shows the tree as it appeared to Oswald in the SN. The spring foliage and additional branch growth shown in the  FBI re-enactment made in May 1964 was not there in November/63. The Secret Service film also shows that JFK was visible and easily tracked while passing under the tree (watch as the car passes in front of the TSBD and down Elm at 10:20-30: