Free Book Now Available -- Hasty Judgment: Why the JFK Case Is Not Closed

[Gerry Down]

Gentlemen,

I have a question regarding the authenticity of the backyard photographs. Marina testified she took the photos on the instructions of, and aided by, her husband. But since she has credibility issues, many people believe she lied about this, as she did on many other occasions, because she was threatened with deportation back to the USSR. This was in 1963-1964.

Yesterday I watched an interview with Marina Oswald-Porter as she is now known - apparently she remarried. In it, she told reporter Jack Anderson that she took the backyard photos. The interview was done in 1988. In a conversation she had with Governor Jesse Ventura for his tv program Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura she reaffirmed this statement, although not directly on camera. Unfortunately I can't find the segment no more and am therefore unable to determine the year it was broadcast, but it was well after the 1988 Jack Anderson program.

So is she still lying? What possible reason could she have? She has reversed many of her past (1963-64) statements and has not been deported as far as I know.

Thanks in advance for your considered reply

This is one of the few things she's been consistent on. It would seem she did take at least two of those photos, but necessarily all four. I don't think she ever claimed to have taken more than two.

[Tom Scully]

Gosh, really?  The fact that it was never entered into the master book/control book suggests that it was not a real item, that it was fabricated and was not an item that went through the normal processing and documentation procedures.

That is why you cannot find any evidence that the money order was ever cashed. That is why there is no evidence that it was processed by the bank or by the Federal Reserve System.

That is why the money order was bought by someone else, while Oswald was at work at Jaggars-Stovall.

Etc., etc., etc.

And, by the way, regarding your claim about the timing of and reasons for the SBT's creation, you might want to read historian Dr. Gerald McKnight's chapter on this in his book Breach of Trust: How the Warren Commission Failed the Nation and Why (University Press of Kansas, 2005). It is chapter 8.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22439-yes-postal-money-orders-do-require-bank-endorsements/?do=findComment&comment=521923
Nice work, Sandy. Very nice work. The whole rifle-ordering affair has always struck me as smelling bad, sounding fishy, and making no sense. Why bother with getting a money order and postage and filling out an order form, when you can just walk into any gun store and buy a rifle in a matter of minutes--and without leaving a paper trail?

Edited December 4 by Michael Griffith

It is not "nice work". It misinforms, by individuals who seem to prefer to be. New postal money order design and point of sale issuance came to Dallas and much of the rest of the country in early 1963, along with a new serial number sequence. Old format PMOs, blue in color, had to be manually key punched at each FRB, the operator reading the dollar amount off of each PMO and key punching the corresponding code into each PMO. These were still sent to Kansas City, slated to close as the volume diminished after sales ceased. There was no way for the new design yellow PMO, printed at sale on new countertop machines off of individual paper slips along with two receipt stubs not associated with any PMO record "book" to end up in the KC PMO storage center because that was the step in the sequence after the manual keypunching at the FRBs, which the new design PMOs were not subjected to. New design PMOs could not end up in Arlington, VA without a FLN (file locator number facilitating retrieval) printed on the face, conceivably any other way than routine processed, in the case of larger regional bank back offices, logged on a batched shipment accompanied by a cash letter delivered to the local FRB for transport to the US Treasury Processing Center in DC, but not processed individually at the closest FRB.Large banks competed with the FRB with regard to processing and only subvmitted processed batches to accompany to DC the processed output of the closest FRB.


It is obvious from comments posted by Michael and others at the Ed Forum that the facts included in this post are required, again, this month since inaccurate information creating unnecessary concern continues to go unchallenged, despite proof being presented to Joseph and Hargrove in 2015 that Armstrong was mistaken!

Loads slowly from archive.org :

https://web.archive.org/web/20170806231323/http://www.jfk.education/node/11
Sorry Brian, Jean, and DVP, Banks Did Not Key-Punch 1963 P.O. Money Orders
Submitted by Admin on Tue, 11/10/2015 - 06:47
Updated November 19, 2015:

https://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/afips/1966/5068/00/50680479.pdf
(Lance Payette brought this to my attention, today. "File Locator Numbers - See Explanation, below:)

Hargrove, quoting Joseph resurrecting what had been disproven 29 months earlier.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22439-yes-postal-money-orders-do-require-bank-endorsements/?do=findComment&comment=376402
On 4/27/2018 at 4:16 PM, David Josephs said:
So basically I am stuck at "a money order was purchased"....  Unlike DVP - I cannot pretend that the existence of the item is PROOF the item is authentic...  the Chain of events related to that item or the declaration of uniqueness give the item authenticity...  (i.e. that the rifle was found on the sixth floor does not prove Oswald bought it)

 

Jason - why aren't the most basic rules of evidence authentication applied?  If it came from a book that left stubs.... and a USP Inspector claims they found the PMO based on finding that stub... why isn't that book/stub in evidence?

If there were only 2 $21.45's... then this is not the correct deposit to prove anything related to that PMO - let alone that it was mailed from Dallas to Chicago (airmail), then received, opened, processed and deposited in less than 24 hours.  And then there's the fact the deposit is dated FEBRUATY 15 not March....

If the PMO was created from a different book (analysis of the numbering of the PMO reveals a problem) that evening at the USPS center very few things would be needed for this item to come alive...  the ONLY thing that could not exist would be the book/stub from where it came as that would prove the deception.

And Finally the PMO #2,202,130,461....    Books of these blank PMOs are sent all over the country... On Nov 14, 1962 Oswald uses PMO# 1,158,380,709 to send $10 to Uncle Sam to pay off his loan...   Is it really conceivable that between Dec 1962 and March 1963 over 1 billion PMOs would be used ?

Either resulting from aging or willful desire reiterate Armstrong's uninformed assumptions, this disproven claim about mysterious PO serial $'s discrepancy was posted again (See Hargrove and Joseph, above.)

Baloney, Michael! an SS agent retrieved the yellow PMO on Saturday evening, 11/23, receiving it to the home of Mr. Marks, a Post office executive, who received it from an employee of the Arlington, VA archive. David Joseph went on BlackOp radio to claim that employee did not exist. I presented this to silence him....
....
...
In the article I presented in Nov., 2015, linked in the quote box directly above, I've supported better than any other source I've been able to find, the following points.:

The PMOs Oswald was known to have purchased in Dallas in fall, 1962, sent to the Dept. of State to repay a travel loan, were of the old, blue colored variety, of a serial number sequence and a process incompatible with the Postal Money Order (PMO) associated with Klein's Sporting Goods.

The blue colored money orders had no automatic data processing associated with the face amounts of dollars and cents filled in manually by the issuing postal clerks at point of purchase.

Instead, each and every one went through a process unique to them, performed by regional Fed. Reserve banks' keypunch operators contracted by the Post Office, via the Federal Reserve. IOW, the Post Office paid the Federal Reserve more than $600,000 annually to hire keypunch operators who manually read the face amount displayed on each blue colored PMO, and then keypunched that amount into each PMO card, in machine language code!

If you read my entire article linked in the quote box above, you will be informed that the blue colored money orders ended up in the Post Office Money order center in Kansas City, MO, where manual fraud detection was conducted and PMOs were manually archived and stored for two years until destruction, per statute.

The innovation associated with the yellow colored PMOs of the type Tim depicted, made the Kansas City PMO center and the Fed. Reserve bank, PMO keypunch process obsolete.

The yellow PMOs were keypunched in Friden manufactured machines at the sales counter of each post office, as each was purchased. The postal clerk simply punched in the purchase amount as each PMO was paid for, and then issued. Upon arrival at the U.S. Treasury data center in DC, large banks submitted both US Treasury checks and PMOs in bulk, from their backroom clearing operations, accompanied with a "cash letter" for each bundle, listing the individual amounts and the total amount of each bundle.

The Treasury's data center operators fed the checks and PMOs into readers capable of reconciling totals and printing file locator numbers (FLN) on each. From there, all were sent on to the archive in Arlington, VA, where they were automatically stored and retrieved via the FLN....

The confusion over the introduction of the new yellow money orders, aggravated further by the incomplete assumptions presented by John Armstrong, would only have been made even more counterproductive if both the old style blue PMOs and the new style yellow PMOs were suddenly and simultaneously all routed in bulk to each Fed. Reserve Bank, especially since most banks either were large enough to prepare cash letters for the unique Treasury issued checks or, in the case of smaller banks, contracted with larger banks for this back office service.

The new yellow PMOs were intentionally designed to be processed identically with the already existing design and processing of checks issued by the U.S. Gov!

So.... especially during that critical transition period during the sequential, regional introduction of the new, yellow colored PMOs, the last thing the Fed. Reserve banks needed was to receive both styles of money orders in bulk. There was no processing of US Treasury issued checks or of yellow PMOs the Federal Reserve banks needed to do!. The Treasury data center had an automated process to sort, verify, and route all of them to the Arlington, VA archive, and once each accompanying cash letter was proofed via that automated process, it could be submitted to the Federal Reserve for debiting of the Post Office account and crediting of the account of each PMO cashing bank.

As the older, blue colored PMOs diminished.... I presented a late 1962 newsletter to Post Offices instructing each to burn their inventory of the obsolete, blue colored PMOs, they became few enough by the late 1960s to be handled individually.

The point of all of this is to say that the regional Fed. Banks processed only the few yellow PMOs submitted by small banks without clearing arrangements with banks large enough to conduct their own back office clearing, and the Fed. Banks treated them just as the big banks, bundling them with accompanying cash letters.
The regional Fed. Banks sent the bundles of US Treasury checks and yellow PMOs to the Treasury Data Center in DC, and this is the only contact they had with the Chicago bank Klein's deposited the yellow PMO at.

The unique thing about these U.S. Gov checks and yellow PMOs was that, unlike private entity issued checks, the Fed. Reserve submitted them to a middle step of verification, at the Treasury's Data Center, versus verifying and clearing all private checks entirely inside the Federal Reserve! ...

[John Mytton]

That is why you cannot find any evidence that the money order was ever cashed. That is why there is no evidence that it was processed by the bank or by the Federal Reserve System.

That is why the money order was bought by someone else, while Oswald was at work at Jaggars-Stovall.

Etc., etc., etc.

I know the above post is a few years old but I hope in the meantime you have thought this through because these two ideas, seem to be at cross purposes.

The first part of your post looks like the entire process was fraudulent from the start but your second idea is that the money order was actually sent? So what do you think happened?
Now, if someone(who ever it was), bought the money order and sent it to Kleins with the rifle coupon, what stopped the order from being completed in the usual way that Kleins processed all their orders?

Anyway, let's go deeper, the money order was retrieved from the Federal reserve and as Tom and Tim have pointed out, the Oswald Money Order was retrieved by locating the "File Locator Number"?



And we know it was retrieved because the money order has a chain of custody from the National Archive until it was submitted into evidence



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But let's suppose that the Money Order was entirely fraudulent, how would we fill in the original blank Money Order and get the Money Order to the Archive?

We'd have to have access to, or knowledge of, the Dallas Post Office date stamp.
We'd have to have knowledge of the correct keypunch procedure.
We'd have to be familiar with Kleins and have access to or knowledge of their bank stamp.
We'd have to know that a Money Order within the archives had to have a "File Locator Number".
We'd have to have access to the National Archives
We'd have to know that our "File Locator Number" would allow retrieval from the Archives.

So in conclusion we would need for reference, some completed and stored Money Orders to use as a template, and various insiders with the appropriate knowledge of each different company, therefore any perceived missing bank stamps or any other missing details were most likely never on any Money Orders within the Archives in the first place, because why go to the trouble and time investment of recreating an undetectable Money Order with infinite precision just to let the entire deception down with an easily detectable flaw?

Either Oswald just bought a Mail Order rifle or a massive team of conspirators went above and beyond, manufacturing a fraudulent transaction? If it was me and I was a Conspirator I would have just convinced 1 shop owner to say that Oswald bought a rifle. Easy peasy!

Btw then we have another problem in that the rifle was ordered under Oswald's alias "A. J. Hidell" which opens up a whole new case of worms.

The Hidell ID was manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID was planted by the Police
The Hidell ID negatives were manufactured by conspirators
The Hidell ID negatives were planted by conspirators in the Paine residence
The Hidell name was inserted by conspirators into the New Orleans post box application records.
The Hidell name was connected To Oswald's New Orleans Chapter of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was used as The "Chapter President" of Oswald's made up Cuba Committee by conspirators.
The Hidell name was forged by conspirators onto Oswald's "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets
The Hidell name was written on membership cards by conspirators other than Marina, who must have lied.
The Hidell name was a play on "Fidel" according to Marina who must have lied
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kliens coupon
The Hidell Kleins coupon addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kliens microfilm
The Hidell name was forged onto the Kleins envelope
The Hidell Kleins Envelope addressed to Oswald was forged onto the Kleins microfilm
The Hidell name on on the Kleins Coupon found by Waldman on the night following the assassination was forgotten?
The Hidell rifle was never sent to Oswald's PO box
The Hidell newly manufactured microfilm was substituted at some point with Kleins business records microfilm.
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or Police lied
The Hidell ID was admitted by Oswald or a Postal official lied
The Hidell ID was asked of Oswald or an FBI agent lied
The Hidell name was forged onto Oswald Job applications as a reference
The Hidell rifle was photographed with Oswald by either forgery or trickery
The Hidell rifle was planted on the 6th floor of Oswald's work by conspirators
The Hidell revolver coupon was forged by conspirators
The Hidell name was forged onto the Seaport-Traders paperwork
The Hidell revolver was lied about by the Police
The Hidell revolver was substituted by Police
And on and on it goes!

JohnM

[Fergus O'Brien]

For anyone who might be interested, I have decided to stop selling my book Hasty Judgment: Why the JFK Case Is Not Closed and to make it available free of charge online in PDF format. The book is my reply to Gerald Posner's book Case Closed. The book includes the transcript of my interview with an NSA photographic technician regarding the backyard rifle photos. Here's the link to the book:

https://miketgriffith.com/files/hastyjudgmentbook.pdf

hi Mr griffith the above pdf download link no longer works . i was wondering if you still have your book pdf available for download elsewhere ?  . thank you .