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Author Topic: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories  (Read 53720 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #136 on: July 18, 2020, 09:53:51 PM »
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The WC did not ignore Craig's or Kantor's statements. They essentially accused Craig of lying and said Kantor was mistaken. They took Jack Ruby's word over Kantor's!
Neither one is mentioned in the final Report ...neither is Arnold.
Ruby just told the WC that he was not at Parkland. He merely responds 'no' to nearly 90 questions--
 https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-17.html
Now...the devoted followers of the WC here do call everybody a liar and everything else that subscribe not to the hang it on Oswald mantra.

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #136 on: July 18, 2020, 09:53:51 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #137 on: July 19, 2020, 12:41:32 AM »
From that article...But suppose Cairns was correct? And the Warren Commission did not "fail to deal with the issue"----They just ignored it! Just like they ignored Seth Kantor's report that he saw Ruby at Parkland...just like they ignored Roger Craig's report that he saw [who he thought was Oswald] coming down the knoll and get into a vehicle...Just like they ignored Arnold Rowland who described a gunman lurking in a window on the west side of the sixth floor...Just like they ignored any other witness whose testimony conflicted with the Oswald did it all alone conclusion.

Why suppose that Cairns was correct when we know for a fact that he was not? Not only do we have the autopsy report that tells us that he was incorrect, we have the autopsy photos, autopsy X-Rays, and the Zapruder film that we can view for ourselves. We also have the fact the the fragment was found well ahead of where the limo was at the time of the head shot.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #138 on: July 19, 2020, 12:45:58 AM »
Neither one is mentioned in the final Report ...neither is Arnold.

The WC allowed Roger Craig to testify (6 H 260-273), but it rejected his account. Decker falsely claimed that Craig was never in the office with Oswald and never spoke with Oswald.

Ruby just told the WC that he was not at Parkland. He merely responds 'no' to nearly 90 questions--
 https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/appendix-17.html


The WC allowed Kantor to testify (15 H 84-96), but it accepted Ruby's denial about being at Parkland Hospital on 11/22.
 
Now...the devoted followers of the WC here do call everybody a liar and everything else that subscribe not to the hang it on Oswald mantra.

Yeap, WC apologists have been doing that for a long time. [/size]

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #138 on: July 19, 2020, 12:45:58 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #139 on: July 19, 2020, 12:50:31 AM »

The WC allowed Roger Craig to testify (6 H 260-273), but it rejected his account. Decker falsely claimed that Craig was never in the office with Oswald and never spoke with Oswald.

When did Decker make that claim and whose office was he referring to?

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #140 on: July 19, 2020, 12:53:34 AM »

Quote from: Jerry Freeman on July 18, 2020, 09:53:51 PM
Now...the devoted followers of the WC here do call everybody a liar and everything else that subscribe not to the hang it on Oswald mantra.
 
Yeap, WC apologists have been doing that for a long time.

Didn't you just call Decker a liar?  Although, I think you are confusing Decker with Fritz. So, you're calling Fritz a liar.

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #140 on: July 19, 2020, 12:53:34 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #141 on: July 19, 2020, 01:34:31 AM »
Why suppose that Cairns was correct

Because Dr. Cairns was one of the only three pathologists who actually got to handle the fragment and to study it up close. Because the two other pathologists who handled and studied the fragment agreed that the fragment was occipital bone. Because Dr. Mantik has established that it was occipital bone, and he notes that there is actually support for this placement on the skull x-rays. Because dozens of witnesses, in three different locations, said there was a large wound in the right-rear part of the head. Because the wound diagrams drawn for the HSCA and the ARRB show a large wound in the back of the head. Etc., etc., etc.

I notice you simply ignored the points that I quoted from Dr. Mantik's article "The Harper Fragment Revisited." Are you ever going to deal with the fact that Dr. Riley based his interpretation of the Harper fragment on the mistaken belief that occipital bone does not contain vascular grooves or foramina?

when we know for a fact that he was not?

You "know" no such thing. You clearly have not read any of the scholarly scientific analyses on the fragment that show it was occipital bone.

Not only do we have the autopsy report that tells us that he was incorrect,

LOL!!!  Are you talking about the "autopsy report" that does not mention the 6.5 mm fragment that later magically appeared on the skull x-rays?  Are you talking about the "autopsy report" that says there was no frontal bone missing, when we now know that the two outside experts hired by the HSCA FPP both said the skull x-rays show missing frontal bone?  The HSCA's trajectory expert, Dr. Thomas Canning of NASA, also said he saw frontal bone missing in the skull x-rays. Dr. John Fitzpatrick, a forensic radiologist hired by the ARRB, told the ARRB that the skull x-rays show significant frontal bone missing. And Dr. Mantik has confirmed that the skull x-rays show frontal bone missing.

By the way, Dr. Finck told General Bloomberg that frontal bone was missing, and Dr. Boswell told the ARRB that frontal bone was missing. The diagram that Boswell drew during the autopsy also shows frontal bone missing. But, gee, the "autopsy report" says nothing about missing frontal bone--perhaps because the autopsy photos that show Kennedy's face show no frontal bone missing, nor do they show any visible damage to the frontal bone area.


You see, if the skull x-rays show frontal bone missing, then the autopsy photos that show JFK's face cannot be authentic.

Ignoring these canyon-sized contradictions and impossibilities in the autopsy evidence won't make them go away.

we have the autopsy photos, autopsy X-Rays,

You still have not read any of the links I've provided on the hard scientific evidence that the autopsy photos and x-rays have been altered, have you? Are you ever going to take a stab at explaining why there is no frontal damage to JFK's head in the autopsy photos that show his face when the skull x-rays show missing frontal bone? Are you ever going to explain the optical density measurements, done by three medical doctors with backgrounds in radiology, that show that a patch was placed over the right-rear part of the head in an effort to conceal the large wound there?

Are you ever going to explain the dozens of witnesses, in three different locations, who saw the large right-rear head wound--were they all "mistaken," even the mortician who prepared the skull and the rest of the body for burial?


and the Zapruder film that we can view for ourselves.

The Zapruder film shows an explosion occurring to the right of JFK's right ear, damage that is nowhere to be seen in the autopsy photos that show JFK's face and the side of his head. And would you care to explain the round black spot that covers the right rear of JFK's head for several frames until that part of the head is no longer visible? What's going on with that? Jackie said she was holding the "back" of her husband's head together. Clint Hill, who saw the large head wound from less than 4 feet away, and who saw it again at Bethesda, said it was in the right-rear part of the head.

We also have the fact the the fragment was found well ahead of where the limo was at the time of the head shot.

Here we go again: You go running to pseudo-research sites like McAdams' website but you don't bother to check any sites that present an opposing view. No, it is not a "fact" that the Harper fragment was found "well ahead of where the limo was" when the Z313 head shot occurred. This claim is not even close to being a "fact." For starters, according to the first two Dealey Plaza reenactment surveys, the fragment was actually found well behind the location of the car at the time of the Z313 head shot.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 02:05:35 AM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Thomas Graves

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #142 on: July 19, 2020, 01:56:32 AM »

Because Dr. Cairns was one of the only three pathologists who actually got to handle the fragment and to study it up close. Because the two other pathologists who handled and studied the fragment agreed that the fragment was occipital bone. Because Dr. Mantik has established that it was occipital bone, and he notes that there is actually support for this placement on the skull x-rays. Because dozens of witnesses, in three different locations, said there was a large wound in the right-rear part of the head. Because the wound diagrams drawn for the HSCA and the ARRB show a large wound in the back of the head. Etc., etc., etc.

I notice you simply ignored the points that I quoted from Dr. Mantik's article "The Harper Fragment Revisited."

You "know" no such thing. You clearly have not read any of the scholarly scientific analyses on the fragment that show it was occipital bone.

LOL!!!  Are you talking about the "autopsy report" that does not mention the 6.5 mm fragment that later magically appeared on the skull x-rays?  Are you talking about the "autopsy report" that says there was no frontal bone missing, when we now know that the two outside experts hired by the HSCA FPP both said the skull x-rays show missing frontal bone?  The HSCA's trajectory expert, Dr. Thomas Canning of NASA, also said he saw frontal bone missing in the skull x-rays. (And Dr. Mantik has confirmed that the skull x-rays show missing frontal bone.)

By the way, Dr. Finck told General Bloomberg that frontal bone was missing, and Dr. Boswell told the ARRB that frontal bone was missing. The diagram that Boswell drew during the autopsy also shows frontal bone missing. But, gee, the "autopsy report" says nothing about missing frontal bone--perhaps because the autopsy photos that show Kennedy's face show no frontal bone missing, nor do they show any visible damage to the frontal bone area.


Ignoring these canyon-sized contradictions and impossibilities in the autopsy evidence won't make them go away.

You still have not read any of the links I've provided on the hard scientific evidence that the autopsy photos and x-rays have been altered, have you? Are you ever going to take a stab at explaining why there is no frontal damage to JFK's head in the autopsy photos that show his face when the skull x-rays show missing frontal bone? Are you ever going to explain the optical density measurements, done by three medical doctors with backgrounds in radiology, that show that a patch was placed over the right-rear part of the head in an effort to conceal the large wound there?

Are you ever going to explain the dozens of witnesses, in three different locations, who saw the large right-rear head wound--were they all "mistaken," even the mortician who prepared the skull and the rest of the body for burial?


The Zapruder film shows an explosion occurring to the right of JFK's right ear, damage that is nowhere to be seen in the autopsy photos that show JFK's face and the side of his head. And would you care to explain the round black spot that covers the right rear of JFK's head for several frames until that part of the head is no longer visible? What's going on with that? Jackie said she was holding the "back" of her husband's head together. Clint Hill, who saw the large head wound from less than 4 feet away, and who saw it again at Bethesda, said it was in the right-rear part of the head.

Here we go again: You go running to pseudo-research sites like McAdams' website but you don't bother to check any sites that present an opposing view. No, it is not a "fact" that the Harper fragment was found "well ahead of where the limo was" when the Z313 head shot occurred. This claim is not even close to being a "fact." For starters, according to the first two Dealey Plaza reenactment surveys, the fragment was actually found well behind the location of the car at the time of the Z313 head shot.


Dear Mike T. Griffith,

Why do you call McAdams a "pseudo research site"?

When it comes to the JFK assassination, how do you define "research," anyway?

How about compiling facts that other people have already researched and proved, and sharing them in a comprehensive way?

How about rebutting tinfoil conspiracy theories?  Isn't that worthwile?

Do you consider yourself a "JFK assassination researcher"?

How so?

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2020, 01:59:47 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #143 on: July 19, 2020, 02:04:38 AM »
Dear Mike T. Griffith,

Why do you call McAdams a "pseudo research site"?

When it comes to the JFK assassination, how do you define "research," anyway?

How about compiling facts that other people have already researched and proved, and sharing them in a comprehensive way?

How about rebutting tinfoil conspiracy theories?  Isn't that worthwile?

Do you consider yourself a "JFK assassination researcher"?

How so?

--  MWT  ;)

So you're just going to ignore all the evidence that I presented and resort to ad hominem attacks?  I am guessing that you made no effort to answer a single point that I made because you don't know how to answer any of them.

I am also guessing that you, like Nickerson, simply refuse to read any of the scholarly scientific studies on the Harper fragment and on the autopsy photos and x-rays that show that the Harper fragment was occipital bone and that the autopsy photos and x-rays have been altered--and that the autopsy materials don't even agree with themselves (e.g., the intact frontal area on the autopsy photos that show the face vs. the autopsy x-rays that show frontal bone missing--not just damaged, but missing.

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Re: JFK's Head Snap and the Implausible Jet-Effect and Neurospasm Theories
« Reply #143 on: July 19, 2020, 02:04:38 AM »