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Author Topic: JFK vs Trump  (Read 15813 times)

Offline Paul May

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2020, 01:20:18 AM »
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What has Donald Trump achieved? Before the COVID-19 pandemic hit:

* One of the best economies in the last 50 years.

* The lowest black and Hispanic unemployment rates ever.

* The biggest jump in manufacturing jobs since the 1990s.

* A huge tax cut that gave the largest rate cuts to the middle class.

* Appointment of outstanding originalist judges to the federal judiciary.

* Selling weapons to Ukraine and Georgia.

* Negotiation of a new North American trade deal that represents a huge improvement over NAFTA.

* Ending the Obamacare penalty tax, so people aren't penalized for not buying a product they don't want.

* Improving security at our southern border to make it harder for human traffickers and drug smugglers to cross the border, and it make it harder for people to enter our country illegally.

* Providing military personnel with a sizable pay increase.

Trump was my last choice among the GOP candidates. I preferred Kasich, Carson, or Rubio, in that order.  I am often disappointed with how Trump conducts himself. Sometimes his behavior is petty and needlessly combative. But Trump has done many good things for America.

The tax hike was sold to citizens as a move that would boost the economy, add jobs and hike wages. The president said in one speech that it would bring the average American household “around a $4,000 pay raise”.

Seizing on that, the Communications Workers of America, a 700,000-member union, asked eight major corporations to sign a pledge to hike worker wages by $4,000 a year if their tax rate was cut to 20%, the initial proposed rate. The companies balked and signed nothing.

Still, big business got what it wanted.

The bill signed into law by Trump on 22 December 2017 cut the corporate tax rate from 35 to 21%, the largest such rate cut in US history. “The most excited group out there are big CEOs,” said the White House economic adviser Gary Cohn as the measure was making its way through Congress in 2017.

But the fears of ordinary workers in regard to those promised higher wages were realized.

The bulk of the $150bn the tax cut put into the hands of corporations in 2018 went into shareholder dividends and stock buy-backs, both of which line the pockets of the 10% of Americans who own 84% of the stocks.

Just 6% of the tax savings was spent on workers, according to Just Capital, a not-for-profit that tracks the Russell 1000 index.

In the first three months after the bill passed, the average weekly paycheck rose by $6.21. That would be $233 a year.

Laughable.

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2020, 01:20:18 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #49 on: July 08, 2020, 03:05:30 AM »
The bill signed into law by Trump on 22 December 2017 cut the corporate tax rate from 35 to 21%, the largest such rate cut in US history. “The most excited group out there are big CEOs,” said the White House economic adviser Gary Cohn as the measure was making its way through Congress in 2017.

Yes, and that long-overdue cut in the corporate tax rate made our companies more competitive in Europe and Asia, where the corporate tax ranges from 18-21%. Furthermore, as part of the cut from 35% to 21%, the tax-cut bill ended the foreign-income loophole so that American companies can no longer pay zero taxes on their overseas income. And in a very smart move to attract American capital parked overseas to come back to the U.S., the bill included a provision that offers a repatriated income tax rate of 13.5% on money that American companies shift back to the U.S., which is one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, that we have seen so much capital come back to the U.S.

But the fears of ordinary workers in regard to those promised higher wages were realized.

Nonsense. Just go read the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics' monthly Employment Situation Report from January 2017 onward until the pandemic hit. Wages increased more under Trump in three years than they did under Obama in eight years. Anyone can check this fact for themselves, and any statistic that weasel-words to avoid this fact is misleading. I am not saying Obama did a bad job with the economy. I think he did a pretty decent job, better than Bush did, but Trump has done even better (again, minus the pandemic).

The bulk of the $150bn the tax cut put into the hands of corporations in 2018 went into shareholder dividends and stock buy-backs, both of which line the pockets of the 10% of Americans who own 84% of the stocks.

That is horrible math. You can't use gross numbers when you're talking about tax cuts, rates, and incomes. If Joe A makes $50K and gets a 10% tax cut, his net income increases by $5K. If Joe B makes $200K per year and gets a 5% tax cut, his net income increases by $10K, but obviously it would be silly and misleading to say that such a tax cut "favored the rich," since the middle-class got to keep a much large share/percentage of his income. The fact that the rich guy gets more money is just a function of math, and it does not change the fact that the middle-income guy is getting to keep a large share of his income.

Anyone who want to learn something in 2 minutes can go to the individual income tax tables for 2017 and 2018 and can see that by far, by far the biggest rate cuts in individual income tax rates in the Trump tax cuts went to the middle class. Moreover, the Trump tax cuts took a big bite out of rich people's wallets by capping the SALT deduction at $10K.

And why in the world do liberals complain because some companies have used some of their tax-cut savings to buy back some of their own stock so as to reduce the influence and cost of shareholders? People who do this know little about business. On the one hand, liberals--as do many conservatives--correctly complain about the harmful influence that shareholders often have on companies. Shareholders often pressure companies to reduce employee benefits and to curb or delay raises in order to cut labor costs, etc., etc.

So if you work for a company that is able to buy back some of its own stock, you should be very happy about this, because when a company does this, it is reducing, or ending, the influence of shareholders and also reducing the number of people who must be paid dividends/returns, which leaves more money for R&D, expansion, raises, better benefits, increased reserve capital, etc. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 03:06:27 AM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2020, 04:03:33 AM »


US Corporations have long been competitive with the EU and Asia because of the advantageous "effective" tax rate (and through creative book-keeping by some corporations, the Gov't actually sends many large US corporations massive tax refunds every year).

Trump's cut for the corporations (and the billionaires) means the middle class have to eventually shoulder more tax burden. Unless Biden reverses things, or the tax code is rewritten, but the empowered and elites don't want that.

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2020, 04:03:33 AM »


Offline Paul May

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2020, 04:17:11 AM »
Yes, and that long-overdue cut in the corporate tax rate made our companies more competitive in Europe and Asia, where the corporate tax ranges from 18-21%. Furthermore, as part of the cut from 35% to 21%, the tax-cut bill ended the foreign-income loophole so that American companies can no longer pay zero taxes on their overseas income. And in a very smart move to attract American capital parked overseas to come back to the U.S., the bill included a provision that offers a repatriated income tax rate of 13.5% on money that American companies shift back to the U.S., which is one of the main reasons, if not the main reason, that we have seen so much capital come back to the U.S.

Nonsense. Just go read the Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics' monthly Employment Situation Report from January 2017 onward until the pandemic hit. Wages increased more under Trump in three years than they did under Obama in eight years. Anyone can check this fact for themselves, and any statistic that weasel-words to avoid this fact is misleading. I am not saying Obama did a bad job with the economy. I think he did a pretty decent job, better than Bush did, but Trump has done even better (again, minus the pandemic).

That is horrible math. You can't use gross numbers when you're talking about tax cuts, rates, and incomes. If Joe A makes $50K and gets a 10% tax cut, his net income increases by $5K. If Joe B makes $200K per year and gets a 5% tax cut, his net income increases by $10K, but obviously it would be silly and misleading to say that such a tax cut "favored the rich," since the middle-class got to keep a much large share/percentage of his income. The fact that the rich guy gets more money is just a function of math, and it does not change the fact that the middle-income guy is getting to keep a large share of his income.

Anyone who want to learn something in 2 minutes can go to the individual income tax tables for 2017 and 2018 and can see that by far, by far the biggest rate cuts in individual income tax rates in the Trump tax cuts went to the middle class. Moreover, the Trump tax cuts took a big bite out of rich people's wallets by capping the SALT deduction at $10K.

And why in the world do liberals complain because some companies have used some of their tax-cut savings to buy back some of their own stock so as to reduce the influence and cost of shareholders? People who do this know little about business. On the one hand, liberals--as do many conservatives--correctly complain about the harmful influence that shareholders often have on companies. Shareholders often pressure companies to reduce employee benefits and to curb or delay raises in order to cut labor costs, etc., etc.

So if you work for a company that is able to buy back some of its own stock, you should be very happy about this, because when a company does this, it is reducing, or ending, the influence of shareholders and also reducing the number of people who must be paid dividends/returns, which leaves more money for R&D, expansion, raises, better benefits, increased reserve capital, etc.
You can attempt to spin your crap anyway you choose.That’s not unusual for those supporting the lunatic in the WH. Not surprising. You sound like a Fox News wannabe. No different than the garbage you’ve written over the years regarding the JFK event. You and POTUS have much in common. That’s no compliment.


Online John Iacoletti

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2020, 05:53:13 AM »
What has Donald Trump achieved? Before the COVID-19 pandemic hit:

* One of the best economies in the last 50 years.

* The lowest black and Hispanic unemployment rates ever.

* The biggest jump in manufacturing jobs since the 1990s.

What exactly did Donald Trump do that caused these things to happen?

Quote
* A huge tax cut that gave the largest rate cuts to the middle class.

This is just false.

Quote
* Appointment of outstanding originalist judges to the federal judiciary.

LOL

Quote
* Selling weapons to Ukraine and Georgia.

That’s a good thing?

Quote
* Negotiation of a new North American trade deal that represents a huge improvement over NAFTA.

So he claimed.

Quote
* Ending the Obamacare penalty tax, so people aren't penalized for not buying a product they don't want.

Huh?

Quote
* Improving security at our southern border to make it harder for human traffickers and drug smugglers to cross the border, and it make it harder for people to enter our country illegally.

You mean the 7 miles of new easily climbable wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for and that cost $5 billion?

Quote
* Providing military personnel with a sizable pay increase.

Congress decides what the budget is.

Quote
Trump was my last choice among the GOP candidates. I preferred Kasich, Carson, or Rubio, in that order.  I am often disappointed with how Trump conducts himself. Sometimes his behavior is petty and needlessly combative. But Trump has done many good things for America.

No, Trump has lied about doing good things for America. Donald Trump only cares about Donald Trump.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 05:56:29 AM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2020, 05:53:13 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2020, 07:43:08 AM »
What exactly did Donald Trump do that caused these things to happen?
.....

LOL ! Doubled the rate of monthly borrowing vs. final Obama admin. fiscal year average monthly borrowing, during a much touted economic expansion, the opposite of fiscal responsibility! Trump party shifted the debt burden to all of our grandchildren and intensely rewarded the top tenth of one percent of American families, approx. 75,000 families, and dramatically reduced their inheritance tax burden, and Trump's own.

Meanwhile, capital investment declined, in favor of stock buybacks resulting in rich reward to the political donor class:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/25/share-buybacks-soar-to-a-record-topping-800-billion-bigger-than-a-facebook-or-exxon-mobil.html
Share buybacks soar to record $806 billion — bigger than a Facebook or Exxon Mobil
PUBLISHED MON, MAR 25 2019 12:57 PM EDTUPDATED MON, MAR 25 20192:16 PM EDT
Kate Rooney




Final Obama admin. fiscal year ends above, national debt increase during final fiscal year of Obama presidency = $671 billion, or $56 billion per month

Quote
https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/05/investing/trump-king-of-debt-fire-janet-yellen/
Donald Trump: 'I'm the king of debt' -
May 7, 2016 - I love debt," Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer
on Wednesday, seemingly trying to explain the comfort level he has with debt after a long business ...

First 8 months of first "debt king", Trump admin fiscal year, debt increase averages $105 billion per month.

https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debttothepenny.htm

Most recent 21 months, just before covid-19 effect on debt increase, debt increase averages $111 billion per month.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 09:00:41 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2020, 02:41:56 PM »
img]https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*4p88EAfZI8z1FibW0aaxJA.png[/img]

US Corporations have long been competitive with the EU and Asia

Not as much as they are now, thanks to the Trump tax cuts.

because of the advantageous "effective" tax rate

Wrong. The graduated nature of the previous corporate income tax only substantially helped smaller companies. Larger corporations were paying an effective tax rate that was far above the 18%-21% rate in Europe and Asia and far above the new rate of 21%.

You realize that the new corporate income tax is *not* graduated, right? It is a flat 21%, regardless of the corporation's size.

And I repeat the point that the Trump tax cuts ended the decades-long foreign income loophole, which allowed U.S. corporations to park billions of dollars overseas and to avoid taxes on income earned overseas. Liberals had been calling for ending this loophole for decades, but few liberals have given Trump credit for finally doing this, because if more people knew about this aspect of the Trump tax cuts, they would not so easily swallow the liberal talking point that the tax cuts mainly helped the rich.

By the way, the JFK tax cuts reduced the top marginal rate, the rate paid by rich folks, from 91% to 70%. So JFK gave the rich a 23% tax cut. Trump cut the top marginal rate by 6.6%.

(and through creative book-keeping by some corporations, the Gov't actually sends many large US corporations massive tax refunds every year).

Humm, I'd like to see data on that claim.

And are you counting the tens of billions of dollars that American corporations pay in state and local income taxes and property taxes?

I work for a rather large corporation, and in previous years I worked for two much larger corporations. I receive pay and benefits that very few small companies would be able to match. The last thing I want to see is my company's corporate tax rate jacked back up to 35%. I think a flat rate of 21% is more than enough.

Trump's cut for the corporations (and the billionaires) means the middle class have to eventually shoulder more tax burden.

Oh, just hogwash. This is Marxist hogwash. The Trump tax cut for corporations simply brought our corporate income tax rate down to the level that is common in Europe and Asia. You might want to remember that our corporations employ millions of Americans and pay billions of dollars each year to contribute to their employees' 401K funds, health insurance premiums, payroll taxes, and unemployment insurance. You realize that your employer pays half of your payroll tax for you, and that your employer pays into your state's unemployment insurance fund on your behalf (at no cost to you) each month, right?

Most people want a job that provides a decent salary and good benefits, including a matching 401K, health insurance, sick leave, and vacation time. Well, who do you suppose provides the majority of those kinds of jobs?  Mom and Pop stores?  No, corporations provide most of those kinds of jobs.

Let us look at the rate cuts for individual income taxes in the Trump tax cuts to dispel the liberal myth that they mainly helped the rich. Keep in mind that most Americans fall into the second, third, and fourth brackets:

1st bracket -- No change (since they already paid no income taxes, and Trump increased the Earned Income Tax Credit)
2nd bracket ($20K-$79K) -- 20% reduction (from 15% to 12%)
3rd bracket ($79K-$168K -- 12% reduction (from 25% to 22%)
4th bracket ($168K-$318K) -- 14.2% reduction (from 28% to 24%)
5th bracket ($318-$410K) -- 3.1% reduction (from 33% to 32%)
6th bracket ($410K-$610K) -- No reduction (stayed at 35%)
7th bracket ($610K-plus) -- 6.6% (from 39.6% to 37%)

As you can see, the second, third, and fourth brackets, where most Americans fall, got the largest rate cuts. My monthly net income rose by over $200 thanks to the tax cuts. So please, Democrats, keep your hands off them.

I notice you said nothing about the fact that the Trump taxes imposed a $10K cap on SALT deductions (state and local taxes), which has taken a sizable bite out of the wallets of the rich.  For someone like me, who pays about $12K in SALT each year, the cap has meant little. But for a person who makes, say, $325K per year and pays $35K or more in SALT, the cap has cost them several thousand dollars per year for the last two years, and will continue to do so.

Unless Biden reverses things, or the tax code is rewritten, but the empowered and elites don't want that.

So you want to jack up the tax rate on our corporations back up to 35%?! Really? Why would you want to do that? You might want to talk to the millions of employees of those corporations and ask them if they would like to see their employer's taxes jacked up by 40% (14 percentage points). Why would you want to do such a thing? Do you not want American corporations to grow, to hire more people, to keep paying for benefits?

I seriously, seriously doubt that Biden would be so foolish as to undo the Trump tax cuts. He might do what Bill Clinton did to the Reagan tax cuts and what Obama did to the Bush tax cuts, i.e., raise the rate for the top brackets somewhat but leave the tax cuts for the other brackets intact. And I hope to high heaven that, if Biden wins, he doesn't undo the great growth we've seen in our business sector by jacking up the corporate income tax rate back to 35% or to anything close to that.

As many economists have pointed out, taxing corporate income is a counter-productive form of double taxation that negatively affects everyone in each corporation. Corporations already pay half of all of their employees' payroll taxes, in addition to tens of billions of dollars in state income taxes and local property taxes. Even the owners and top executives in corporations already pay taxes on their salaries. So turning around and taxing a corporation again on its profits makes no sense, if you are interested in enabling the company to grow as much as possible.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 02:53:40 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2020, 05:20:25 PM »
Not as much as they are now, thanks to the Trump tax cuts.

Wrong. The graduated nature of the previous corporate income tax only substantially helped smaller companies. Larger corporations were paying an effective tax rate that was far above the 18%-21% rate in Europe and Asia and far above the new rate of 21%.

You realize that the new corporate income tax is *not* graduated, right? It is a flat 21%, regardless of the corporation's size.

And I repeat the point that the Trump tax cuts ended the decades-long foreign income loophole, which allowed U.S. corporations to park billions of dollars overseas and to avoid taxes on income earned overseas. Liberals had been calling for ending this loophole for decades, but few liberals have given Trump credit for finally doing this, because if more people knew about this aspect of the Trump tax cuts, they would not so easily swallow the liberal talking point that the tax cuts mainly helped the rich.

By the way, the JFK tax cuts reduced the top marginal rate, the rate paid by rich folks, from 91% to 70%. So JFK gave the rich a 23% tax cut. Trump cut the top marginal rate by 6.6%.

Humm, I'd like to see data on that claim.

And are you counting the tens of billions of dollars that American corporations pay in state and local income taxes and property taxes?

I work for a rather large corporation, and in previous years I worked for two much larger corporations. I receive pay and benefits that very few small companies would be able to match. The last thing I want to see is my company's corporate tax rate jacked back up to 35%. I think a flat rate of 21% is more than enough.

Oh, just hogwash. This is Marxist hogwash. The Trump tax cut for corporations simply brought our corporate income tax rate down to the level that is common in Europe and Asia. You might want to remember that our corporations employ millions of Americans and pay billions of dollars each year to contribute to their employees' 401K funds, health insurance premiums, payroll taxes, and unemployment insurance. You realize that your employer pays half of your payroll tax for you, and that your employer pays into your state's unemployment insurance fund on your behalf (at no cost to you) each month, right?

Most people want a job that provides a decent salary and good benefits, including a matching 401K, health insurance, sick leave, and vacation time. Well, who do you suppose provides the majority of those kinds of jobs?  Mom and Pop stores?  No, corporations provide most of those kinds of jobs.

Let us look at the rate cuts for individual income taxes in the Trump tax cuts to dispel the liberal myth that they mainly helped the rich. Keep in mind that most Americans fall into the second, third, and fourth brackets:

1st bracket -- No change (since they already paid no income taxes, and Trump increased the Earned Income Tax Credit)
2nd bracket ($20K-$79K) -- 20% reduction (from 15% to 12%)
3rd bracket ($79K-$168K -- 12% reduction (from 25% to 22%)
4th bracket ($168K-$318K) -- 14.2% reduction (from 28% to 24%)
5th bracket ($318-$410K) -- 3.1% reduction (from 33% to 32%)
6th bracket ($410K-$610K) -- No reduction (stayed at 35%)
7th bracket ($610K-plus) -- 6.6% (from 39.6% to 37%)

As you can see, the second, third, and fourth brackets, where most Americans fall, got the largest rate cuts. My monthly net income rose by over $200 thanks to the tax cuts. So please, Democrats, keep your hands off them.

I notice you said nothing about the fact that the Trump taxes imposed a $10K cap on SALT deductions (state and local taxes), which has taken a sizable bite out of the wallets of the rich.  For someone like me, who pays about $12K in SALT each year, the cap has meant little. But for a person who makes, say, $325K per year and pays $35K or more in SALT, the cap has cost them several thousand dollars per year for the last two years, and will continue to do so.

So you want to jack up the tax rate on our corporations back up to 35%?! Really? Why would you want to do that? You might want to talk to the millions of employees of those corporations and ask them if they would like to see their employer's taxes jacked up by 40% (14 percentage points). Why would you want to do such a thing? Do you not want American corporations to grow, to hire more people, to keep paying for benefits?

I seriously, seriously doubt that Biden would be so foolish as to undo the Trump tax cuts. He might do what Bill Clinton did to the Reagan tax cuts and what Obama did to the Bush tax cuts, i.e., raise the rate for the top brackets somewhat but leave the tax cuts for the other brackets intact. And I hope to high heaven that, if Biden wins, he doesn't undo the great growth we've seen in our business sector by jacking up the corporate income tax rate back to 35% or to anything close to that.

As many economists have pointed out, taxing corporate income is a counter-productive form of double taxation that negatively affects everyone in each corporation. Corporations already pay half of all of their employees' payroll taxes, in addition to tens of billions of dollars in state income taxes and local property taxes. Even the owners and top executives in corporations already pay taxes on their salaries. So turning around and taxing a corporation again on its profits makes no sense, if you are interested in enabling the company to grow as much as possible.

That word, "Marxist",..I don't think it means what you think it means.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: JFK vs Trump
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2020, 05:20:25 PM »