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Author Topic: A Simple Question in Physics  (Read 6980 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2020, 07:11:53 AM »
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« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 07:13:37 AM by Joe Elliott »

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2020, 07:11:53 AM »


Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2020, 10:15:50 AM »
Most witnesses heard BANG ... ... ... BANG ... BANG.

“There was a longer pause between the first and second shots than there was between the second and third shots,” testified mayor Earle Cabell

Senator Ralph Yarborough recalled, “ . . . to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots.”

Which it seems to me is fairly accurately portrayed in the Zapruder film. A shot from behind, momentarily moving the head forwards, and another shot from the fence/wall location sending the head backwards/to the left.


Offline John Mytton

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 11:35:34 AM »
Most witnesses heard BANG ... ... ... BANG ... BANG.

“There was a longer pause between the first and second shots than there was between the second and third shots,” testified mayor Earle Cabell

Senator Ralph Yarborough recalled, “ . . . to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots.”

Which it seems to me is fairly accurately portrayed in the Zapruder film. A shot from behind, momentarily moving the head forwards, and another shot from the fence/wall location sending the head backwards/to the left.

CECIL AULT, Deputy District Court Clerk, Dallas District Court, 505 Main Street, advised that on November 22, 1963 he had put up the shades of the windows in the courtroom of Judge HENRY KING, Dallas District Court, in order to look through the windows onto Main Street to observe the Presidential motorcade as it came down Main Street. Mr. AULT observed the president pass the courthouse on Main Steet turning onto Houston and observed the President's automobile as it moved down Houston to the intersecton of Houston and Elm Streets where the Presidential motorcade turned the corner onto Elm Street. Mr. AULT heard three loud reports which Mr. AULT immediately recognized as shots from a high-powered rifle. He noted that the first and second shots sounded to him close together and the third shot was spaced more after the second shot, the first two shots sounding close enough to be from an automatic rifle. Mr. ULT could not tell from what direction the rifle shots came.


BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots.


Mr. CABELL - Well, I would put it this way. That approximately 10 seconds elapsed between the first and second shots, with not more than 5 seconds having elapsed until the third one.


Mr. BELIN - And what's your best recollection now as to the amount of time between shots?
Mr. COUCH - Well, I would say the longest time would be 5 seconds, but it could be from 3 to 5.
Mr. BELIN - And would this be true between the first and the second shots as well as between the second and the third - or would there have been a difference?
Mr. COUCH - As I recall, the time sequence between the three were relatively the same.


Mr. BELIN - The shots seemed to be how far apart?
Mr. FISCHER - That's hard to say. I've been thinking about that. And--uh--I'd guess--3 to 4 seconds.
Mr. BELIN - Was that between the first and the second or between the second and the third?
Mr. FISCHER - Between both. As far as I can remember, the shots were evenly paced.


JohnM

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 11:35:34 AM »


Offline Michael Carney

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2020, 01:44:39 PM »
Thanks very much!

Online Gerry Down

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2020, 02:50:15 AM »
Most witnesses heard BANG ... ... ... BANG ... BANG.

“There was a longer pause between the first and second shots than there was between the second and third shots,” testified mayor Earle Cabell

Senator Ralph Yarborough recalled, “ . . . to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots.”

Which it seems to me is fairly accurately portrayed in the Zapruder film. A shot from behind, momentarily moving the head forwards, and another shot from the fence/wall location sending the head backwards/to the left.

This has been well established. There was an "echo" on the head shot for some reason. And obviously Oswald could not have fired two shots in such rapid succession.

Its never been explained why there was an "echo" on the head shot but not on any of the other shots.

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2020, 02:50:15 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2020, 05:21:27 AM »

This has been well established. There was an "echo" on the head shot for some reason. And obviously Oswald could not have fired two shots in such rapid succession.

Its never been explained why there was an "echo" on the head shot but not on any of the other shots.

There is at least one rather good explanation. “Crack-Thump”.

A supersonic bullet does not make one noise. It makes two. “Crack-Thump”.

Interruption: Yes, but why not “Crack-Thump . . . Crack-Thump . . . Crack-Thump”.
Answer: I’ll get to that.

The “Crack” is from the supersonic bullet. The “Thump” is from the muzzle blast. The “Crack” travel’s most of the way, if an observer is near the trajectory of the bullet, like along the street, as most witnesses were, at the speed of the bullet, an average speed of 2,000 feet per second. The “Thump” travels at a slower speed, the speed of sound, 1,125 feet per second.

For the first shot, at a distance of 130 feet, the bullet will arrive after (velocity = distance / time, and time = distance / velocity) 130 / 2000 or 65 milliseconds. An observer may hear it shortly after that.
The muzzle blast travels 130 feet in 113 milliseconds. The difference is 48 milliseconds.

If one does the math, one finds that the theoretical time difference between the “Crack” and the “Thump” is:

First shot at z153: 48 milliseconds.
Second shot at z222: 70 milliseconds.
Third shot at z313: 98 milliseconds.

The delay between the “Crack” and the “Thump” is twice as long for the third shot than it is for the first shot. And a good deal longer for the third shot compared to the second.

Now, the exact delay will depend on the location of each witness, and will vary from witness to witness. But in general, the interval between the “Crack and the “Thump” will be greatest for the third shot. So, it may be that for the first and second shots, the “Crack” and the “Thump” arrived too close to each other to distinguish them as two separate sounds. But the third could be distinguished as two separate sounds.


Another factor is the alertness of the witnesses. After the second shot, when both the President and Governor were wounded, most witnesses did not realize that shots had been fired. Most continued clapping their hands, as can be seen in the Zapruder film. So, they might ignore the detail of what might be a backfire, like whether it was a “bang” or “bang-bang” as they concentrated on their few seconds of seeing the President and First Lady close at hand. But the third shot, with the head explosion, may cause them to become instantly alert and remember with more detail the sounds that had just occurred.


Finally, while there was an extra sound with the first shot, striking the street, there was no extra sound with the second bullet, which passed through mostly the soft tissue of the President and the Governor. In contrast, the third shot had extra sounds caused by:

•   The shot hitting at almost 1900 feet per second the skull.
•   The sound of a fragment hitting the windshield.
•   The sound of another fragment hitting the chrome windshield frame.


So, there are some extra possibilities why a witness might be more likely to mistake the third shot as two shots occurring almost together.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2020, 05:27:15 AM by Joe Elliott »

Offline Michael Carney

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2020, 04:11:53 PM »
My take on it is he was hit simultaneously by two bullets to the head, one from the front and one from the back. I recall seeing on one of the threads that showed the inside of the skull with fragment spray in two areas of the skull, front and back.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2020, 12:20:36 AM »
So, there are some extra possibilities why a witness might be more likely to mistake the third shot as two shots occurring almost together.

Wouldn't that witness have heard more than three of these sounds then?

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Re: A Simple Question in Physics
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2020, 12:20:36 AM »