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Author Topic: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )  (Read 296502 times)

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1440 on: March 14, 2021, 04:36:30 AM »
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That Mr. Ford photo illustrates perfectly Mr.Plant’s question : How could Stanton get to that west corner of the landing.

It’s a question that I should have asked myself way back when I thought the corner was a logical place for a 300 lb woman to be.

With  BWF and Mr.  Shelly and Mr. Williams there on that 4’width landing then 2’ at least is taken up leaving a very narrow thruway which I doubt the 300 lb round woman would choose to
attempt to squeeze thru

Especially

When an easier place to move from her blocking the door position beside Pauline Sanders, is simply  to move FORWARD and down a step or 2 to the position that Mr. Ford has identified as the person with both hands raised to shield face from sunlight.

This position is where Lovelady and Frazier seem to suggest is where Stanton was located.

The bottle at the steps, the bottle in the right hand, the bottle in the raised forehand in Altgens, the dark clothing, sleeves rolled up, the Hosty note, the corner being a logical place for the “loner” Oswald to stand, the narrow thruway which only a slender 130lb Oswald could probably navigate without being noticed...

It’s adding up FAR in favor of PM = Oswald and virtually null and void that PM could plausibly be Stanton.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1440 on: March 14, 2021, 04:36:30 AM »


Offline Frederick Clements

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1441 on: March 14, 2021, 09:16:40 AM »

 Two questions.

 Why was the Hosty note about Oswald watching p parade hidden from public for several decades?


 Why is NBC refusing to release the original Wiegman and Darnell films?

 Fred

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1442 on: March 14, 2021, 10:45:31 AM »

There is no "superior case" for Stanton being the Prayer Man because she never placed herself there, other witnesses don't place her there, her family already said PM wasn't her, and her physical appearance automatically disqualifies her.     

And you still never told me how Stanton was able to appear in your "claimed location" when she was standing on the opposite side confirmed by two witnesses. How did she get there?   

Evidence that points to the possibility of Stanton being on the west side of the entrance steps at some point:

1) Billy Lovelady's CE 1381:

"At the time the Presidential Motorcade passed the
Depository building heading west on Elm Street, I was standing
on the top step to the far right against the wall of the
entranceway to the Texas School Book Depository.
At this time I recall that William H Shelley, who resides at
128 South Tatum, Dallas, and Mrs Sarah Stanton, also of
Dallas, Texas, both of whom are likewise employed by the
Texas School Book Depository, were standing next to me."

As the President passes by Lovelady has himself positioned by the far west wall of the entranceway. In this clip from the Hughes footage it is possible to make out Lovelady by the far west wall as the President passes by:



Lovelady is clearly placing Stanton on the west side of the entranceway.

2) Stanton's CE 1381

"...I heard three shots after the President's car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President's car at that time."



It is clear from Altgens 6 that anyone standing on the east side of the entranceway has a clear view of the motorcade as the shots are being fired. Only someone standing closer to the west wall would not have this clear line of sight. Stanton appears to be saying it was not possible for her to see the President's car at the moment of the shots - "I could not see"

3) This interview with Frazier.

@ 51:10 in this interview:


“...a lady come by and she was crying, ‘cause she had been down by the sidewalk, somewhere down toward the triple underpass and she come by and she said, “They have shot the President”.
And so, Sarah, the lady I was standing by up on the top step back in the shadows...we looked at one another, and we really didn’t have a lot to say, we just listened to what the lady told us…”

Frazier identifies Sarah as being on the top step standing back in the shadows. People on the east side of the front steps are not standing in shadow. Only someone on the west side would be described as standing “back in the shadows.”

In this still from Darnell Frazier is clearly seen but where is Stanton?



Obviously there is Pauline Sanders statement that Stanton was on the east side of the entranceway and in other interviews Frazier seems to indicate Sarah was to his left. The common sense approach to all this evidence is that Stanton moved from the east side to the west as the motorcade approached.

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Well, when you try to make a hefty claim with no evidence then you should expect some pushback from researchers. 

That's exactly what advocates for Oswald as Prayer Man have done. There is not one scrap of evidence that places Oswald on the steps.

Quote
See, your goal is to keep Oswald out as a potential candidate at any cost, so you try to throw a 300+ pound fat woman into the mix by pretending she is the Prayer Man. That's why your claim is ridiculous. Plus you never can offer any real evidence for your claim because there isn't any.

You sound like Alan here.
Why rule out Oswald as a potential candidate?
I don't believe Oswald took the shots but I can't say definitively where he was at that time.
It would be amazing if it were Oswald on the steps.
So why not accept it is Oswald on the steps?       

Because there is not one scrap of evidence that places him there.
The question is - How can other researchers place him there?

Quote
The unknown man who is standing there that isn't Sarah Stanton.

How do you know it's a man?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 10:47:28 AM by Dan O'meara »

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1442 on: March 14, 2021, 10:45:31 AM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1443 on: March 14, 2021, 05:21:14 PM »
Evidence that points to the possibility of Stanton being on the west side of the entrance steps at some point:

1) Billy Lovelady's CE 1381:

"At the time the Presidential Motorcade passed the
Depository building heading west on Elm Street, I was standing
on the top step to the far right against the wall of the
entranceway to the Texas School Book Depository.
At this time I recall that William H Shelley, who resides at
128 South Tatum, Dallas, and Mrs Sarah Stanton, also of
Dallas, Texas, both of whom are likewise employed by the
Texas School Book Depository, were standing next to me."

He mentions Ms Stanton because he can see her in the Altgens photograph-------------she's the lady from the second floor he points out to Mr Dom Bonafede.

Quote
As the President passes by Lovelady has himself positioned by the far west wall of the entranceway. In this clip from the Hughes footage it is possible to make out Lovelady by the far west wall as the President passes by:



Lovelady is clearly placing Stanton on the west side of the entranceway.

2) Stanton's CE 1381

"...I heard three shots after the President's car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President's car at that time."



It is clear from Altgens 6 that anyone standing on the east side of the entranceway has a clear view of the motorcade as the shots are being fired. Only someone standing closer to the west wall would not have this clear line of sight. Stanton appears to be saying it was not possible for her to see the President's car at the moment of the shots - "I could not see"

3) This interview with Frazier.

@ 51:10 in this interview:


“...a lady come by and she was crying, ‘cause she had been down by the sidewalk, somewhere down toward the triple underpass and she come by and she said, “They have shot the President”.
And so, Sarah, the lady I was standing by up on the top step back in the shadows...we looked at one another, and we really didn’t have a lot to say, we just listened to what the lady told us…”

Frazier identifies Sarah as being on the top step standing back in the shadows. People on the east side of the front steps are not standing in shadow. Only someone on the west side would be described as standing “back in the shadows.”

In this still from Darnell Frazier is clearly seen but where is Stanton?



Obviously there is Pauline Sanders statement that Stanton was on the east side of the entranceway and in other interviews Frazier seems to indicate Sarah was to his left. The common sense approach to all this evidence is that Stanton moved from the east side to the west as the motorcade approached.

Extraordinary that these long-discredited garbage Doyle arguments are being advanced by someone who purports to be a serious student of the case!

Mr O'Meara's time would be much better spent figuring out how Mr Lovelady's body can be contorted such as to yield this 'shadow'--------------



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Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1444 on: March 14, 2021, 06:46:52 PM »
He mentions Ms Stanton because he can see her in the Altgens photograph-------------she's the lady from the second floor he points out to Mr Dom Bonafede.

?? Where in Altgens 6 is Sarah Stanton??

Quote
Extraordinary that these long-discredited garbage Doyle arguments are being advanced by someone who purports to be a serious student of the case!

Simply point out how they've been discredited rather than make this nothing comment.

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1444 on: March 14, 2021, 06:46:52 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1445 on: March 15, 2021, 05:50:07 AM »
Evidence that points to the possibility of Stanton being on the west side of the entrance steps at some point:

1) Billy Lovelady's CE 1381:

"At the time the Presidential Motorcade passed the
Depository building heading west on Elm Street, I was standing
on the top step to the far right against the wall of the
entranceway to the Texas School Book Depository.
At this time I recall that William H Shelley, who resides at
128 South Tatum, Dallas, and Mrs Sarah Stanton, also of
Dallas, Texas, both of whom are likewise employed by the
Texas School Book Depository, were standing next to me."

Would you agree that "next to me" could literally be in any direction?

Quote
2) Stanton's CE 1381

"...I heard three shots after the President's car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President's car at that time."

Would you agree that there is not enough information to determine (without guessing) why she could not see the car?

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1446 on: March 15, 2021, 11:02:27 AM »
Would you agree that "next to me" could literally be in any direction?

Yes

Quote
Would you agree that there is not enough information to determine (without guessing) why she could not see the car?

The point I was making was that if she was stood on the east side of the front steps she "could" see the Limo at the time of the shots.
Altgens 6 clearly demonstrates this.
If she "didn't" see the limo at the time of the shots it might mean she was looking elsewhere at that time.
That she "couldn't" see the limo indicates (to me at least) that it was not possible for her to see the limo at the time of the shots.
She could not see the limo at the time of the shots because it was not possible for her to see the limo at the time of the shots. This is not the case for anyone stood on the east side of the steps.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1447 on: March 15, 2021, 10:25:40 PM »
She could not see the limo at the time of the shots because it was not possible for her to see the limo at the time of the shots. This is not the case for anyone stood on the east side of the steps.

OMG! This means that Mr Joe "Just after his car disappeared from my view I heard three shots" Molina can't have been on the east side of the steps either! BIG breakthrough!!!

Also! It means Mr Otis "Just after the Presidential car passed the building and went out of sight over the Elm street embankment I heard three loud blasts" Williams ALSO can't have been on the east side of the steps! MEGA breakthrough!!!!!

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Re: Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )
« Reply #1447 on: March 15, 2021, 10:25:40 PM »