Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Alan Ford]

Another possible explanation for this ridiculous impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady in Wiegman---------------



1. Mr Duvall is NOT Prayer Man, but he is the man whose right hand holding what looks very like a soda bottle shows up in the version of Altgens shown to the American public for the first and last time by Mr Walter Cronkite on the evening of 11/22/63:



2. The original Wiegman film seen by the 'investigating' authorities showed Mr Duvall in this same spot between Mr Carl Jones and Mr Billy Lovelady. (Prayer Man however is right over by the west wall.)

3. Mr Duvall's strong resemblance to Mr Oswald led the 'investigating' authorities, who were aware of Mr Oswald's claim in custody that he "went outside to watch P. Parade", to black out Mr Duvall in those Wiegman frames. They actually believed that what they were seeing was Mr Oswald's alibi. This erasure had the MERIT of erasing 'Oswald's' presence on the steps but the DEMERIT of giving Mr Lovelady an impossible shadow down his left side. But------given the stakes, it was a risk worth taking.....

4. Because Prayer Man in Wiegman was so lost in (natural!) shadow anyway, and because the 'investigating' authorities had mistaken Mr Duvall for Mr Oswald, Prayer Man's significance (i.e. potential danger to the official story) was not even recognized-----------and would not be until folks, years later, started taking a closer look at the Darnell film.

Summary of this scenario: Mr Duvall was indeed on the steps, but so too was Prayer Man-------------a figure whom no one in Team Keep LHO Off Dem Steps has been able to offer a credible candidate for!

 

[Zeon Mason]

There is nothing to indicate that Mr. Duvall had a bottle of soda in hand while at the entrance steps (let alone evidence Duvall was actually there)
In contrast,  Oswald  allegedly did state having bought a coke just before going out to watch that P. Parade. (If Hosty is a credible witness.)

Except for  Billy Lovelady, the only other probable person on those entrance steps who would be holding a bottle of soda, is Oswald.

It’s quite obvious that raised forearm person holding an object horizontally up to the mouth level (= bottle most probably) could only be Oswald , absent any other further definitive information about Mr.Duvall.

It’s reasonably probable that prayer man is NOT Mr.Duvall.

The bottle with the large white oval shaped label on it ,( photed at the very step where PM was standing ) is reasonable indication that the white object in PMs hand may be that same bottle.

The problem is, however, that the typical 63 coke bottle label was only the fine white cursive lettering of “Coca-Cola” which it doubtful that would register in a B&W camera frame as a solid roundish white blob.

A 63 era Dr. Pepper bottle is closer to the mark, having a larger portion of oval shaped white label, however, the red sold bar dividing the oval , raises question why the camera could not distinguish such contrast.

If the bottle is neither Coke nor Dr.Pepper, then the question is if Oswald did go “out” at 12:00pm and bought himself a 32oz bottle of some sort that does have a particular mostly solid white oval label?

[James Hackerott]

Another possible explanation for this ridiculous impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady in Wiegman---------------



1. Mr Duvall is NOT Prayer Man, but he is the man whose right hand holding what looks very like a soda bottle shows up in the version of Altgens shown to the American public for the first and last time by Mr Walter Cronkite on the evening of 11/22/63:



2. The original Wiegman film seen by the 'investigating' authorities showed Mr Duvall in this same spot between Mr Carl Jones and Mr Billy Lovelady. (Prayer Man however is right over by the west wall.)

3. Mr Duvall's strong resemblance to Mr Oswald led the 'investigating' authorities, who were aware of Mr Oswald's claim in custody that he "went outside to watch P. Parade", to black out Mr Duvall in those Wiegman frames. They actually believed that what they were seeing was Mr Oswald's alibi. This erasure had the MERIT of erasing 'Oswald's' presence on the steps but the DEMERIT of giving Mr Lovelady an impossible shadow down his left side. But------given the stakes, it was a risk worth taking.....

4. Because Prayer Man in Wiegman was so lost in (natural!) shadow anyway, and because the 'investigating' authorities had mistaken Mr Duvall for Mr Oswald, Prayer Man's significance (i.e. potential danger to the official story) was not even recognized-----------and would not be until folks, years later, started taking a closer look at the Darnell film.

Summary of this scenario: Mr Duvall was indeed on the steps, but so too was Prayer Man-------------a figure whom no one in Team Keep LHO Off Dem Steps has been able to offer a credible candidate for!

 

Perhaps this dark cloud has a silver lining. Mr. DuVall gave an interesting oral history to Stephen Fagin at the Sixth Floor Museum. I was able to listen and take furious notes for the first 15 minutes of a little over 40 minutes of video.

Mr. Ford’s scenario with Mr. DuVall present in the doorway during the assassination brings some baggage with Mr. DuVall’s statements. Key recollections include:

Mr. DuVall was tasked to take two trailers (trucks?) to the TSBD and load books. Two trailers required two drivers. Thus, when he speaks of his actions in his oral history he will use “we”.

At the TSBD dock a forklift driver (Lee Oswald no less) would bring the books to the truckers. About 30 minutes before the President was expected Lee did not bring any more books. Looking for him DuVall and partner “went through a side building” and found Oswald eating lunch. DuVall tells Oswald they are going outside to see the President, and asks if Oswald was going to see him and got a response “Yes, I’m going to see him” and that’s all he said.

“He (Oswald) did not show up where we’s at, he went up to the sixth floor”

Stephen Fagin asks “You saw Oswald here on the second floor lunch room?” (It is my recollection that DuVall gave a hand gesture indicating agreement to the question.  Also DuVall suggested some familiarity with the building but is not very forthcoming). Fagin says okay and the story continues.

DuVall went back inside the building looking for Oswald so they could continue loading books. He says “we can’t find him either”.

DuVall rambles on about Tippet and Ruby for some length until Fagin goes back to before the shooting. Says DuVall “We waited out and sat on the front (3’rd) steps. Big crowd across the street”.

This is now 15 minutes into the oral history but my available time was up.

So back to the silver lining (and under the hypothesis that Mr. DuVall was in the doorway but somehow obscured) - where is his partner? Mr. DuVall’s partner becomes a credible candidate for Prayer Man.

[Jerry Freeman]

At the TSBD dock a forklift driver (Lee Oswald no less) would bring the books to the truckers. 

Doubtful. Especially at this late date. Lee's job was filling orders not driving fork lifts.

[Alan Ford]

So back to the silver lining (and under the hypothesis that Mr. DuVall was in the doorway but somehow obscured) - where is his partner? Mr. DuVall’s partner becomes a credible candidate for Prayer Man.

Red arrow: Mr Duvall
Green arrow: Mr Duvall's partner?

[Rick Plant]

Evidence that points to the possibility of Stanton being on the west side of the entrance steps at some point:

1) Billy Lovelady's CE 1381:

"At the time the Presidential Motorcade passed the
Depository building heading west on Elm Street, I was standing
on the top step to the far right against the wall of the
entranceway to the Texas School Book Depository.
At this time I recall that William H Shelley, who resides at
128 South Tatum, Dallas, and Mrs Sarah Stanton, also of
Dallas, Texas, both of whom are likewise employed by the
Texas School Book Depository, were standing next to me."

As the President passes by Lovelady has himself positioned by the far west wall of the entranceway. In this clip from the Hughes footage it is possible to make out Lovelady by the far west wall as the President passes by:



Lovelady is clearly placing Stanton on the west side of the entranceway.

2) Stanton's CE 1381

"...I heard three shots after the President's car passed the front of the building but I could not see the President's car at that time."



It is clear from Altgens 6 that anyone standing on the east side of the entranceway has a clear view of the motorcade as the shots are being fired. Only someone standing closer to the west wall would not have this clear line of sight. Stanton appears to be saying it was not possible for her to see the President's car at the moment of the shots - "I could not see"

3) This interview with Frazier.

@ 51:10 in this interview:

“...a lady come by and she was crying, ‘cause she had been down by the sidewalk, somewhere down toward the triple underpass and she come by and she said, “They have shot the President”.
And so, Sarah, the lady I was standing by up on the top step back in the shadows...we looked at one another, and we really didn’t have a lot to say, we just listened to what the lady told us…”

Frazier identifies Sarah as being on the top step standing back in the shadows. People on the east side of the front steps are not standing in shadow. Only someone on the west side would be described as standing “back in the shadows.”

In this still from Darnell Frazier is clearly seen but where is Stanton?



Obviously there is Pauline Sanders statement that Stanton was on the east side of the entranceway and in other interviews Frazier seems to indicate Sarah was to his left. The common sense approach to all this evidence is that Stanton moved from the east side to the west as the motorcade approached.

That's exactly what advocates for Oswald as Prayer Man have done. There is not one scrap of evidence that places Oswald on the steps.

You sound like Alan here.
Why rule out Oswald as a potential candidate?
I don't believe Oswald took the shots but I can't say definitively where he was at that time.
It would be amazing if it were Oswald on the steps.
So why not accept it is Oswald on the steps?       

Because there is not one scrap of evidence that places him there.
The question is - How can other researchers place him there?

How do you know it's a man?

This has been beaten to death and yet you have zero evidence for your false Stanton claim.

Buell Frazier has stated on more than one occasion that Sarah Stanton was standing to his left. He never indicated once that she was off to his extreme right. That eliminates Stanton as the phony Prayer Man claim.

Buell Frazier recently confirmed once again that he has no idea who the Prayer Man is. He also said that the figure is not Oswald. 

So, if Frazier was having this long lengthy conversation with Stanton (which you claim was standing in the Prayer Man position to his right) why wouldn't Frazier say the Prayer Man was Stanton? That is something he would never forget. That fact that he doesn't know who the Prayer Man is, confirms the Prayer Man is not Sarah Stanton, otherwise he would confirm it was her if he was talking with the Prayer Man.

This once again proves the Prayer Man is not Sarah Stanton. 

Case Closed.       

[Alan Ford]

Red arrow: Mr Duvall
Green arrow: Mr Duvall's partner?

Friends, thus far I have
------------confidently identified Mr Kenneth Duvall as the man caught on camera by Mr Hughes in the railroad yards several minutes after the assassination
------------tentatively but not unconfidently identified his partner (name unknown) in the same Hughes footage (we see him talking to Mr Duvall).

Now! Mr Duvall claimed he was on the front steps at the time of the shooting. This, however, is one of a number of.................. eyebrow-raising claims he made about that day (Mr Oswald a forklift driver... car driving towards knoll... man in overalls...).

What if there is a core truth to Mr Duvall's story, i.e. he really was at the Depository on a job that day with a partner? The Hughes footage lends strong independent support to this idea. But what if Mr Duvall later sought to insert himself into the big story in a way that involved multiple embellishments?

Well, here's where that line of thought might lead us:

An innocent explanation----------finally!-----------for something startling that Officer Marrion Baker mentioned in his WC testimony-----------something that has bugged researchers for years............

Mr. BAKER - On the first floor there were two men. As we came through the main doorway to the elevators, I remember as we tried to get on the elevators I remember two men, one was sitting on this side and another one between 20 or 30 feet away from us looking at us.
Mr. DULLES - Were they white men?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.

Might not these two white men hanging around near the rear of the first floor have been none other than Mr Kenneth Duvall and his partner?

[Rick Plant]

I think Prayer Man may be leaning into the wall.

Flipped image to give our tired eyes a jolt!---------------

It does look like Prayer Man could be leaning against the wall or very close to it.