Then went outside to watch P. parade ( Parts 1 & 2 )

[Zeon Mason]

Since there is the LN criticism of the “out front” location for Oswald based on Oswald’s statement of “naturally if I work IN that building “ in response to the question : Were you in the building at the time “?

So I’m considering the idea that Oswald initially was in the front lobby looking thru  the glass partition   when Carolyn Arnold (looking back) saw him at approx 12:25, and that Oswald did not actually come out to stand on the steps until just a few seconds AFTER the shots were fired.

This might address the probability question of how Oswald could be next to and in FRONT of several persons yet he was apparently unnoticed or not remembered by such persons.

The psychological effect therefore might be the phenomenon of “missing the Gorilla in  the midst of the basketball players” because of shock effect of shots fired causing focus of mind to flight or fight response.

[Alan Ford]

Since there is the LN criticism of the “out front” location for Oswald based on Oswald’s statement of “naturally if I work IN that building “ in response to the question : Were you in the building at the time “?

So I’m considering the idea that Oswald initially was in the front lobby looking thru  the glass partition   when Carolyn Arnold (looking back) saw him at approx 12:25, and that Oswald did not actually come out to stand on the steps until just a few seconds AFTER the shots were fired.

This might address the probability question of how Oswald could be next to and in FRONT of several persons yet he was apparently unnoticed or not remembered by such persons.

The psychological effect therefore might be the phenomenon of “missing the Gorilla in  the midst of the basketball players” because of shock effect of shots fired causing focus of mind to flight or fight response.

Mr Oswald behind the front door at the time of the actual shots is indeed possible, though "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" suggests that is not what he actually claimed in custody. It would also, of course, leave the impossible shadow down Mr Lovelady in Wiegman unexplained..........

I suspect that Ms Arnold did indeed spot Mr Oswald behind the glass front door shortly before the motorcade's arrival----------and that he was keeping an eye on things so he could nip outside at the last moment (he hated small talk and would have found standing around on the steps for several minutes with other employees uncongenial). If----------as I am doubly surmising----------he nipped outside at the last minute and then left the steps immediately after the shots rang out to follow Mr Shelley down on to the street, it's unsurprising that he would go generally unnoticed.

The enclosed, raised-steps entranceway was in the front part of the building. As such it was 'in the building', albeit not INSIDE it. (The Warren Gullibles always pretend the reporter asked 'Were you INSIDE the building at the time?') To leave the building fully, one had to descend the steps and hit the sidewalk.

 

[Alan Ford]

The enclosed, raised-steps entranceway was in the front part of the building. As such it was 'in the building', albeit not INSIDE it. (The Warren Gullibles always pretend the reporter asked 'Were you INSIDE the building at the time?') To leave the building fully, one had to descend the steps and hit the sidewalk.

Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes recalled Mr Oswald saying he was up in the building and ran downstairs to see what all the commotion was about.

The chances that Mr Oswald said in interrogation 'Yeah, you got me, I was on an upper floor during the assassination' are precisely zilch.

I believe what Mr Oswald actually talked about was being UP in the (raised front part of the) building (i.e. the front steps) when the shots rang out. Therefore his view of what was happening down Elm Street was blocked. Thus, in order to see what all the commotion was about, he rushed DOWN the steps and out on to the street.

I submit that Mr Oswald left the building TWICE in the space of a few minutes:
1. Running down off the front steps within seconds of the shots ringing out
[---------->Re-entering the building a few minutes later with Mr Shelley via the west door]
2. Re-exiting several minutes later by the front door, where he was stopped by an officer and let pass only after Mr Truly vouched for him as an employee

Mr Holmes, not being privy to Mr Oswald's previous statements on these two exits, erroneously conflated them into one

 

[Alan Ford]

I submit that Mr Oswald left the building TWICE in the space of a few minutes:
1. Running down off the front steps within seconds of the shots ringing out
[---------->Re-entering the building a few minutes later with Mr Shelley via the west door]
2. Re-exiting several minutes later by the front door, where he was stopped by an officer and let pass only after Mr Truly vouched for him as an employee

Mr Holmes, not being privy to Mr Oswald's previous statements on these two exits, erroneously conflated them into one

According to Mr Harry D. Holmes, Mr Oswald in custody recalled being stopped at the front door by an officer, who only let him pass when he was cleared as an employee by his superintendent of the place. The superintendent of the place was Mr Roy Truly.

From Asst. Chief Charles Batchelor's report on the activities of Deputy Chief of Police George L. Lumpkin:



Question!

How did Mr Oswald know that Mr Truly was at the front door several minutes after the assassination vouching for employees to a police officer (Eric Kaminski)? How would somebody who got out of the Depository well before Mr Truly came back downstairs know that this was the precise system that was after that put in place?

 

[Alan Ford]

Friends, I invite you to read slowly this from Mrs Reid's WC testimony. It is an exceedingly strange moment:

Mr. CARR. Mrs. Reid, have you had occasion to visit with any of Oswald's relatives, his wife or mother?
Mrs. REID. No.
Mr. CARR. Have they been in there since that date to look over the premises?
Mrs. REID. His mother has been but I didn't see her. She didn't go any further than the first floor I understand, but I have never seen her other than these pictures.
Mr. DULLES. Is it usual for the employees of the depository to have friends visit them during office hours or would that be an unusual practice?
Mrs. REID. No; that would not be unusual. Family or somebody wanted to drop by to see you they never have objected to that.
Mr. BELIN. I think the record should show we are offering in evidence this morning, Mr. Dulles, Commission Exhibit 507 which is the diagram of the seventh floor which Officer Baker testified to.
Mr. DULLES. You want that admitted now?
Mr. BELIN. We want that admitted now.
Mr. DULLES. No objection. It will be admitted.
(The diagram referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 507 for identification and received in evidence.)
Mr. BELIN. I think those are all the questions we have of Mrs. Reid.
We want to thank you very much for your cooperation in coming up here, Mrs. Reid.

------------Why on earth does Mr Carr ask Ms Reid that bizarre question, a question no other Depository witness was asked?
------------Why does Mr Dulles intervene to modify the topic?
------------Why does Mr Belin then go completely off-topic and shut down Mr Carr's line of questioning altogether?

Did Mr Carr receive word that either Mr Oswald's wife or his mother had been contacted by someone claiming to be a female Depository employee with important information?

If so, what might that information have been?

Speculation: A female employee encountered a Coke-carrying Mr Oswald just after the assassination-------out on the street in front of the building.

Was Mr Oswald with or near Mr Bill Shelley when the latter ran into Ms Gloria Calvery out at 'the corner of the park'?



If so, Mr Shelley's change of story for the WC would be explained: I remained on the steps until after Gloria came running up and told us all what had happened. LHO-Calvery encounter: erased!

Perhaps Mr Carr asks Ms Reid that otherwise bizarre question because he is struck by the similarity between Ms Reid's story and the female employee story he has heard via one of the Oswald women: I saw Lee with a coke; I told him the Pres. had been shot

[Alan Ford]

If so, Mr Shelley's change of story for the WC would be explained: I remained on the steps until after Gloria came running up and told us all what had happened. LHO-Calvery encounter: erased!

Perhaps Mr Carr asks Ms Reid that otherwise bizarre question because he is struck by the similarity between Ms Reid's story and the female employee story he has heard via one of the Oswald women: I saw Lee with a coke; I told him the Pres. had been shot

From the recent book The Lone Star Speaks:

As Frazier watched the motorcade pass, he heard three shots and saw spectators begin running west towards the triple underpass. Shelley and Lovelady immediately ran in that direction, too, simply because that’s where all the activity seemed to be. From their position on the steps, the men were unable to see whether anyone in the motorcade was hit by the shots.

“I think the only reason Billy and Mr. Shelley ran to the underpass area is because that’s where so many other bystanders were running,” commented Frazier. Importantly, the witnesses on the Depository steps did not look up to the upper floors.

On the way to the underpass, Lovelady and Shelley encountered Gloria Calvary running from the area later known as “the grassy knoll” or the “grassy area.”

“The President’s been shot!” she cried, so Shelley and Lovelady changed directions and followed the crowds towards the railroad tracks, which were north of the grassy area. Frazier and Sarah Stanton moved down to the sidewalk in front of the Depository and talked with other bystanders about the sounds they had heard, still uncertain as to whether there had been shots or not.

This account is intriguing because it blends elements from Mr. Shelley's 11/22 affidavit (After running down off the steps, I ran into Gloria Calvery) with elements from what Messrs. Shelley & Lovelady told the WC (We both left the steps together, but only after Gloria Calvery had come running up to the steps and told us what had happened).

It is not clear whether the authors have drawn this version of events from Mr. Frazier (their interviewee), or are putting their own gloss on the thing.

IF this is coming from Mr. Frazier's own recollection, then I submit that he may possibly be giving us a half-truth to cover for a truth which can be conveyed by substituting one name:

As Frazier watched the motorcade pass, he heard three shots and saw spectators begin running west towards the triple underpass. Shelley and Lovelady Oswald immediately ran in that direction, too, simply because that’s where all the activity seemed to be. From their position on the steps, the men were unable to see whether anyone in the motorcade was hit by the shots.

“I think the only reason Billy Lee and Mr. Shelley ran to the underpass area is because that’s where so many other bystanders were running,” commented Frazier. Importantly, the witnesses on the Depository steps did not look up to the upper floors.

On the way to the underpass, Lovelady Oswald and Shelley encountered Gloria Calvary running from the area later known as “the grassy knoll” or the “grassy area.”

“The President’s been shot!” she cried, so Shelley and Lovelady Oswald changed directions and followed the crowds towards the railroad tracks, which were north of the grassy area. Frazier and Sarah Stanton moved down to the sidewalk in front of the Depository and talked with other bystanders about the sounds they had heard, still uncertain as to whether there had been shots or not.

A good deal hangs upon the simple question: is this Mr. Billy Lovelady, still on the steps, in Darnell?



It does look like him. If it is him, then the location of the Calvery encounter given in Mr. Shelley's affidavit trumps the location given by Messrs. Shelley & Lovelady in their WC testimony.

In which case----------------------Was it in fact Mr. Oswald, and not Mr. Lovelady, who ran off the steps with Mr. Shelley?

Nota bene! Neither Mr. Shelley's nor Mr. Lovelady 11/22 affidavit contains any mention of their having paired off together just after the shooting. Mr. Shelley's affidavit speaks only of himself (does he already know better than to mention Mr. Oswald?); Mr. Lovelady doesn't even mention leaving the steps at all. And here is Mr. Lovelady, quite a few minutes later, still on the steps:



When shown frames from this Martin film by Mr. Robert Groden, Mr. Lovelady makes the startling admission: I didn't re-enter the building until 20-25 minutes after the shooting!

There is, in short, good reason to suspect that Mr. Lovelady was NOT the man who left the front steps with Mr. Shelley just after the shots rang out.

 

[Alan Ford]

Now!

It is a little-appreciated fact that Mr. Buell Wesley Frazier, in his WC testimony, puts Mr. Oswald in a gray, flannel-looking jacket that morning. Mr. Frazier says this jacket was familiar to him from previous occasions, so he is working off more than a once-off fleeting look on this question.

Under-appreciated also is the fact that Mr. Charles Givens tells the WC that Mr. Oswald "would wear a grey looking jacket" to work.

If these men are correct, and Mr. Oswald wore a gray jacket to work, then it is worth noting that we have never seen that gray jacket. We picture him to ourselves, at the time of the assassination, in a tshirt, or in a brown shirt over a tshirt, or in a reddish-brown shirt over a tshirt, but not in a gray jacket. We might be making a big mistake there....................

 

[Alan Ford]

Well!

We have two statements, each attributed to Mr. Ochus Campbell, that Mr. Oswald was seen in a storage room on the first floor shortly after the assassination.

Exhibit #1! Dallas Morning News, 11/23/63 (by Mr. Kent Biffle):



Exhibit #2! New York Herald Tribune, 11/23/63:



Note that the DMN article gives an indirect quote, whereas the NYHT one provides a direct quote.

And there are not one but two eyebrow-raising details in that direct quote from Mr. Campbell:
---------1. "We saw him (Oswald) in a small storage room on the ground floor"
---------2. "he did not have permission to leave the building"

Well, if no. 2 here is referring to the time when Mr. Truly and Officer Baker have just run into the buidling, then Mr. Campbell's statement is most odd. All employees, at that time, had permission to leave the building. Why, most of the building's employees had left the building to view the P. Parade! There was no prohibition on employees leaving the building when on their lunch hour-----------we know, for instance, that a catering truck came by for anyone who wished to buy lunch.

This indicates that Mr. Campbell is talking about somewhat later timeframe: several minutes later, when the building was locked down.

So..................... how could Mr. Biffle have gotten the wrong end of the stick?

Here's what I think may have happened:

----------------Mr. Biffle heard, early on, that Mr. Truly & an officer had run into a 'worker' inside the building just after the assassination, and the officer had challenged this man at gunpoint, before releasing him on the word of the building manager. What Mr. Biffle did NOT hear was any NAME for this employee, nor the all-important detail: this 'worker' was caught by the rear stairway several floors up the building (as would be reflected in Officer Baker's affidavit later that day).

----------------Mr. Biffle also heard, at a considerably later point, when the word 'Oswald' was on everyone's lips, Mr. Campbell say what the NYHT reporter heard him say, i.e. that this Oswald was seen in a small storage room on the ground floor shortly after the shooting. Mr. Biffle understandably but erroneously put two and two together, and came out with five: this Oswald guy must have been the worker Mr. Truly had vouched for to the gun-toting cop. And so Mr. Biffle conflated the two sightings.

All of which would leave us with Mr. Oswald spotted in or by one of the two small storage rooms on the first floor several minutes after the shooting.

On the scenario I have been exploring in recent posts on this thread,
----------Mr. Oswald went outside to watch the P. Parade (just as he claimed)
----------then, when shots rang out, he ran down off the steps, with Mr. Bill Shelley in front
----------they both heard from Ms. Gloria Calvery that Pres. Kennedy had been shot
----------they both headed west to the edge of the railroad yards, where they stood around for a little while watching all the excitement
----------they both re-entered the building, via the west door
----------Mr. Oswald was spotted by the storage room on the first floor (perhaps by several people, including Mr. Ochus Campbell [remember: the direct quote has him say "We saw him"])
----------At some point after this, Mr. Oswald went to the front entrance to leave: by this time, an officer (Lt. Kaminski) was posted there: he stopped Mr. Oswald, and only let him go after Mr. Truly vouched for him

Mr. Oswald related all this to Captain Fritz in that first interrogation, and his claims were ruthlessly distorted in the official interrogation reports. Meanwhile, important work was undertaken------------through the addition of a magic shadow (down Mr. Lovelady's side) in Wiegman, and the creation of a 'post-Cronkite' version of the Altgens photograph----------- to erase visual evidence of Mr. Oswald's presence in the doorway at the time of the shooting