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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 443511 times)

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2424 on: November 16, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »
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Very few people who survive COVID-19 suffer "extensive damage." What source is telling you that "many" people who survive the virus--which, BTW, is about 97% of those who catch it--subsequently suffer "extensive damage"? Where are you getting that? The stats I've seen show that only a very small percentage of people experience any serious health issues after they catch and survive COVID-19.

I know 22 people who caught COVID-19, including two people in my immediate and extended family, and not one of them has experienced any unusual health issues after they caught it. In fact, ALL of them either had no symptoms or mild symptoms.

So, again, what is your source for claiming that "many" survivors suffer "extensive damage"?

Finally, as of this morning, the COVID-19 death rate has dropped again. It is now down to 2.23% (245K deaths/11 million cases). If your liberal brain can't process this fact, do the math yourself. 245K deaths out of 11 million cases equals a case death rate of 2.23% and a survival rate of 97.77%. Why do you people insist on panicking over a virus that has an average survival rate of 97.77%?

 :D :D :D

You have no idea what people are suffering long term from with COVID_19. You are a disinformation artist peddling lies. Why? Whats your goal of downplaying the virus?

From ‘brain fog’ to heart damage, COVID-19’s lingering problems alarm scientists
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2424 on: November 16, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2425 on: November 16, 2020, 02:25:34 AM »
Colin,

If the United States had competent leadership, this virus wouldn't have gotten out of control and thousands of lives would have been saved. Not to mention, our lives would have been more normal than what we have been facing the last 8 months.

Donald Trump knew from the beginning that COVID-19 was a deadly airborne virus. He admitted to Bob Woodward on tape telling him "he wanted to always downplay the virus". That lead to tens of thousands of deaths because of him.

Right from the get go, Donald Trump lied about COVID-19 calling it a "hoax" and sought to politicize a non political virus. Instead of fighting to save Americans, he wanted to attack Democrats and downplay the virus because he thought it would help him win an election but he failed miserably.   

The right wing media from day one downplayed the virus and started putting out disinformation that posters here parrot. They also caused massive death in this country. People listened to their lies and blew the virus off as a joke and spread the virus around their communities.

We had no national plan that would have helped to combat the virus. Some states had restrictions and red states had none so sick people crossing state lines continued to spread COVID. Most states saw significant improvement and then Donald Trump started demanding states to open and told his deranged cult to force states to open. That's when we lost the war on COVID.

Donald Trump wants herd immunity and doesn't care how many people get sick or die. He held many hate rallies that exploded the spreading of the virus. Over 1 million new cases were recorded this week. Hospitals are at full capacity so new sick patients that require hospitalization won't be able to be admitted. Over 1200 deaths are being recorded each day. Right wingers refuse to lock down or do anything to stop the spread. They are engaging in mass murder.

Immediate lockdowns tomorrow would help stop the spread of the virus and so would wearing masks where eventually we would see progress being made.

There are only two options. Do nothing want watch the economy go under and witness massive death and infection or lockdown and get this virus under control.                 

Rick, as I see it the problems the US had were the following.

The virus essentially became politicised because you were facing a Presidential election. Trump, for all his failings, had a good chance of re-election and no obvious challenger had emerged by the new year. Trump saw the "economy" as a winner, using the DJI as the simplistic indicator for Joe Public, to prove his point. Everything in his thinking was to keep the Stock market buoyant.

The virus hit early in the new year, I believe in Washington State at first. Information at that time was sketchy, but it was obvious that Wuhan was having a serious health crisis. Unfortunately the US decided to develop their own testing kit. It was not effective early and so that caused serious issues. New York also had outbreaks, and we know the problems that caused.

Now we know that a significant number of people are asymptomatic spreaders. Also people can spread the virus for days presymtomatically. So you can see, community spread was out of control, with no real way of testing. The only way of diagnosis was via severe symptoms. The only experience with severe corona virus disease previously was with SARS, years before. That’s what many used to judge what to do but the characteristics of this virus are different.

Trump's focus was the "economy" ie. his re election. Every action taken was with that filter in place. He was the "cheerleader", not for the country, but for the DJI, his winning in November. Eventually he imposed the limited travel bans but it was too late, the virus was already spreading inside the country.

In my city we have not had a community spread case since April 14. Two days ago we had 4, today 17. We are fortunate enough to have the numbers of contact tracers to track those possibly in contact with them down. Our hospital system can cope at present. I fear for the toll on health workers and the health system in the US given the rapid growth in numbers recently.

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2426 on: November 16, 2020, 03:31:09 AM »
What?! Moderators should remove your posts for sheer stupidity. We do not "currently have the highest" death rate since the pandemic started. That is demonstrably false, as anyone can confirm by checking the CDC site, the Johns Hopkins site, or the WHO site. During the lockdowns, the death rate got as high as 5.67%. But, it began to drop dramatically after states began to reopen, and it is now at  2.3% (243K deaths/10.6 million cases). That means the average survival rate is up to 97.7%. Can you do basic math?

Part of the problem is that you guys keep focusing on case numbers and ignore the dramatic drop in the death rate. You just don't seem to care that the death rate has dropped to 2.3%, which means that the average survival rate is 97.7%

I've already answered this liberal talking point, and you keep ignoring the answer and just keep on citing liberal rags like the New York Times. New Zealand is an ISLAND and has a very low population density. How about we talk about Taiwan, which has a much higher population density--24 million people in 14K square miles vs. New Zealand's 4.8 million people in 103K square miles? Taiwan refused to impose a lockdown and kept its businesses and schools open--and Taiwan has the lowest infection and death rates in the world.

HOGWASH! You are just too ignorant to do basic math. You keep focusing on case numbers. Look at the death rate, since that is the key stat. I dare you to divide the number of cases by the number of deaths. If you do so, if you know how, you will see that the death rate is now down to 2.3%. Then, go back to the middle of the lockdowns and do the same calculation, and you will see that the death rate was consistently well over 5% for weeks during the lockdowns.

The fact is, New Zealand used strict lockdowns to stamp out the virus. It doesn't matter what their population is. What matters is, they didn't allow coronavirus to overwhelm their country and it proves that lockdowns work which ignorant right wingers refuse to admit. Sweden refused to do anything and now they are paying the price.   

Griffith shows his severe ignorance unable to comprehend simple math and numbers written on a page.

Coronavirus cases and deaths are not "dropping", they are increasing each day.

Let's see if Griffith can comprehend simple numbers and math.

Saturday Coronavirus cases and deaths

Cases: 138,249  Deaths: 1,259

Sunday Coronavirus cases and deaths

Cases: 145,670  Deaths: 1,350   

Cases:
145,670
138,249


An increase of 7,241 cases in just one day. How are these cases "dropping"? They are increasing.

Deaths:
1,350
1,259


An increase of 91 deaths in one day with another consecutive day of +1000 deaths. Deaths are not "dropping", they are increasing.

Simple math that Griffith doesn't understand as cases are near 150,000 each day along with +1000 deaths. It's not "dropping" it's getting worse.

Rural communities where Trumpturd moron voters live are being overwhelmed by COVID deaths. So tell me Griffith, where are the number of deaths "dropping" and why are you still posting COVID disinformation?   

Our neighbors, our family members': Small-town hospitals overwhelmed by COVID-19 deaths
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/15/hospitals-coronavirus-covid-19-cases-deaths/6267612002/

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2426 on: November 16, 2020, 03:31:09 AM »


Offline Gerry Down

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2427 on: November 16, 2020, 03:43:18 AM »
The fact is, New Zealand used strict lockdowns to stamp out the virus.

No one flies into New Zealand because its so out of the way. Half the world flies into the U.S.

That's why the U.S. has suffered so much.

Do you really think people listen to Trump, Biden etc on this issue. People do what they want.

Offline John Tonkovich

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2428 on: November 16, 2020, 04:03:14 AM »
Mr Griffiths: since the U.S. trailed the rest of the world in testing til at least June, testing, that is, on a per capita basis, it's impossible to calculate a proper death rate, i.e. , percentage for the first 3 or 4 months of the pandemic.
Please respond. Thx.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2428 on: November 16, 2020, 04:03:14 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2429 on: November 16, 2020, 04:04:07 AM »
Yes, it is called SCIENCE

But you don't believe in science. You post disinformation. Every single piece of science refutes your bogus propaganda.   


We, the U.S., have been averaging about 800 deaths per day since mid-July. If that rate were to continue to the end of the year, that would be an additional 37,600 deaths in the U.S., plus the 245K who have already died, giving us a grand total of 282,600 deaths for the year. That is not terribly more than the number of Americans who died from the Asian Flu in 1958 (216,000 adjusted for current population), during which we did not close schools, or businesses, or churches, etc., and therefore did not cause tens of millions of people to lose their jobs, did not cause tens of thousands of people to wipe out their life savings waiting for restrictions to end, did not cause tens of thousands of businesses to shut down (about 30% of which would never come back), and did not senselessly force tens of millions of school kids to stay home.

More disinformation.

The United States is averaging over 1,000 deaths per day and the current death rate is the highest it's been since the pandemic started where Donald Trump and the right wing media called it "hoax".

Medical experts are warning in the coming weeks we will see over 2,000 deaths per day. Again, deaths are not "dropping", they are increasing.   

People lost their jobs because of Donald Trump refusing to take on the virus head on like New Zealand did. Unless you get this virus under control, the economy will always suffer because of it.

The reason we are witnessing a surge is because kids went back to school and are COVID superspreaders. Businesses opened and people are getting sick. Democrats and medical experts warned this would happen and it did.         

"Like what? Opening up states, allow mass gatherings and do away with masks and social distancing? What.... do tell?"

Well, first of all, let's remember that states that opted for no lockdowns or only mild lockdowns did just as well as, or better than, states that opted for harsh lockdowns. So your assumption that lockdowns were the correct approach is flawed from the outset. I have asked you guys several times to address this fact, but you keep ignoring it.

Florida (21M) -- 17.5K deaths/875K cases // MILD LOCKDOWN
New York (19.4M) -- 33.5K deaths/561K cases // HARSH LOCKDOWN
Georgia (10.6M) -- 8.7K deaths/408K cases // MILD LOCKDOWN
Michigan (10M) -- 8.3K deaths/275K cases // HARSH LOCKDOWN

A rational person willing to be honest would look at these numbers and conclude that the harsh lockdowns were not necessary to combat the virus.

More propaganda. If no lockdowns happened the numbers would be 10x's worse. What's flawed is your propaganda. The lockdowns didn't work because there was never a National Lockdown implemented and right wing morons in each state refused to follow them.     

Counting the Lives Saved by Lockdowns—and Lost to Slow Action

On May 20, disease modelers at Columbia University posted a preprint that concluded the US could have prevented 36,000 of the 65,300 deaths that the country had suffered as a result of COVID-19 by May 3 if states had instituted social distancing measures a week earlier. In early June, Imperial College London epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, one of the UK government’s key advisers in the early stages of the pandemic, came to a similar conclusion about the UK. In evidence he presented to a parliamentary committee inquiry, Ferguson said that if the country had introduced restrictions on movement and socializing a week sooner than it did, Britain’s official death toll of 40,000 could have been halved.

https://www.the-scientist.com/features/counting-the-lives-saved-by-lockdownsand-lost-to-slow-action-67689


Here is the approach that many disease experts and other scholars have suggested:

Focus protective measures on the two high-risk groups: the elderly and the medically ill.

Reopen schools, since people aged 1-24 face a much lower risk of death from COVID-19 than they do from the common flu. Require teachers over the age of 35, or those who are medically ill regardless of age, to wear masks at school. Require teachers who are over 65 to both mask and social distance.

Allow mass gatherings but require the elderly and the medically ill to mask and to social distance, until they can be vaccinated. For sporting events, we could even designate a reasonably sized section of seating for the elderly and the medically ill, and still require them to mask--again, until they can be vaccinated.

Allow "non-essential" businesses (they're surely essential for those who own them and who depend on them for income) to operate at full capacity, but require elderly and medically ill customers to mask, and require workers who serve/interact with them to mask during service/interaction.

If we had followed this approach from the beginning, we would have suffered far, far less economic damage, both as a nation and in many cases as individuals, and our death numbers would probably be lower than they are now, or at least no worse.

You're showing your ignorance. This has already happened and it's why new cases and deaths are surging. Kids are back in school and businesses were reopened, as a result, more mass death and infection.

Now states are being forced to lockdown again. 8 wasted months and now the pandemic is worse than it was in March.

If everybody worse a mask and the U.S. locked down for 8 weeks, scientists said the virus would be under control. We already should have done this and we wouldn't be facing this disastrous surge right now.       

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2430 on: November 16, 2020, 04:12:44 AM »
No one flies into New Zealand because its so out of the way. Half the world flies into the U.S.

That's why the U.S. has suffered so much.

Do you really think people listen to Trump, Biden etc on this issue. People do what they want.

We suffered because of Donald Trump and his stooge GOP Governors who follow his orders.

Now we will have Joe Biden who will take on this virus providing real competent leadership.   

Yeah, people do what they want and that's why coronavirus is totally out of control. All they are doing is making themselves and other people sick. Pretty soon hospitals will be at full capacity and these idiots who "do what they want to do" will not be admitted into the hospital and will die at home from a deadly airborne virus that we were told was a "hoax" by Donald Trump and the right wing media.     

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2431 on: November 16, 2020, 04:40:16 AM »
No one flies into New Zealand because its so out of the way. Half the world flies into the U.S.

That's why the U.S. has suffered so much.

Do you really think people listen to Trump, Biden etc on this issue. People do what they want.

How many Chinese students do you think fly into Australia (and NZ) in Jan and Feb to start the academic year? You thought you could develop a test that was better than others. You were wrong and it cost big time. It was a gamble. Trump dropped the ball. In the end his claim of not being a politician cost him. Look at the popularity of those who jumped on the virus from the start.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2431 on: November 16, 2020, 04:40:16 AM »