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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 467576 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2784 on: December 10, 2020, 07:40:41 AM »
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Sorry it came across as rude. I usually see that from the LNers who cuss and swear at every opportunity to try and make a point they can't back up other than running to CNN, Vanity Fair, The Guardian or NYT.   You are falling into it again.   Its a magic trick.  If you asked me if I ever lied and I told you not that I remember.  What did I tell you?  Absolutely nothing.   Again, it was pointed out in the first HBO documentary that you are allowed to choose what you are to look at.  They will point you into a spot where they can come clean and give you 3% to look at that is not flawed.  If you know how the system works, you will make sure you have a clean corner for investigation.  Again watch the documentary and learn how it worked back in Bush vs. Gore election.   Discarding ballots, signed election ticker tapes thrown out - all sorts of anomalies.   The only way anything gets uncovered is when you go through the trash and see what real and spoiled ballots (supposed yo be kept for 2 years) you will find.   There are rules to follow and nothing came of that investigation either.

The FBI and CIA will be looking the other way in all this.  They will warn Democrats in a defensive manner but they will prosecute the Republicans in an offensive manner.  We have witnessed this for the last 4 1/2 years!  The Deep State has objectives which are not held accountable by the voting peasants.   The elites have a military industrial complex to run worldwide - who cares if your taxes go up and more debt is created - just as long as you can ride the wave!!!

Ok, but none of this supports Claim 1, that the Dominion Voting System computers were rigged. Only 3 % of the national ballots were manually counted. But that is still over 5,000,000 ballots. Allegedly, millions of Trump votes were deleted, or changed to Biden votes by the software. And yet a manual recount of over 5,000,000 ballots doesn’t find any evidence of this? If 1,000,000 votes were changed nationwide, a manual recount of 3% of the ballots should find a discrepancy of something like 30,000 votes. But, amazingly enough, nothing like this number was found.

Now, there may be a perfectly good explanation. Maybe Dominion Voting Systems employed psychics, who told them which counties were safe to manipulate and which to leave alone. Or maybe Biden operatives make up much of Trumps legal team so they made sure they never requested a manual recount in the wrong county. But the more rational view is that this claim of over a million votes being changed by the software is an obvious lie.

If one side is going to cry “Election Fraud”, they better have the truth on their side. They cannot appear to be trying to subvert the will of the people. They better not be making ANY bogus claims. Or I will not believe them. They must be like Caesar’s wife. The Trump team seems to be worse than Caesar’s whore. A rational look at the facts show that Claim 1 is obviously false.


P. S.: I supported Bush in the aftermath of the 2000 Election. Gore requested a highly biased recount of the undervotes of 4 heavily Democratic counties, which contained 37% of the Florida Gore voters but only 25% of the Bush votes. The biased Florida State Supreme Court chose, initially, the biased 4 county recount over a statewide recount, which they could have arranged by mid-November, but didn’t. So, if you are going to preach to me about the Democrats being unfair in 2000, you’re preaching to the choir. But I see the 2020 Election totally differently. Trump makes unfounded claims, like about the Dominion software, and asks us to assume that he is the true winner. If you’re going to overturn a free election, you have to have proof, not claims. Where is the proof that the Dominion software was rigged? Why can’t massive manual recount of millions of votes uncover this truth? I say, the manual recounts did uncover the truth.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2784 on: December 10, 2020, 07:40:41 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2785 on: December 10, 2020, 07:49:40 AM »
I merely made a point that judges are turning criminals loose into the streets without being held on cash bail before trial and sentencing.  As if they will on their own recognizance show up in court to face charges - some very serious. 

That's a massive exaggeration. The court system, just like anything else created by men, isn't perfect, but America has by far the highest number of incarcerations per 100.000 people in the world. The system is overloaded as it is, with people serving life terms for minor offences under the three strikes rule. Changes need to be made, that's for sure, but to claim that judges are turning criminals loose into the street is just an hysterical nonsensical argument.

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Meanwhile ANTIFA and BLM are not protesting but looting and rioting on the streets of major cities.  It is one thing to have a march, it is quite another to destroy and burn businesses to the ground.   CNN and MSM calls it peaceful demonstrations -I call BS on that.    These are organizations bent on destroying society and throwing out the law book.  These are terrorists - not peace loving demonstrators.   IF ANTIFA and BLM are really trying to improve society, maybe they should tale all their funds to places like Chicago where street warfare is killing people daily.    They really do need help there with crime problems -its not the police causing it!   These organization's goals aren't there to help - they are there to disrupt normal society!    Maybe they should use the money Soros donated to them for a good cause instead!

Again, I am not talking Republican or Democrat.  Bush was in bed with all the rest.  Washington is made up of swamp creatures. They all took a turn on the Lolita Express!   Epstein likely had blackmail file folders on every one them to keep them towing the line.

Sorry, your views on this subject are way too radical and extreme for me to even try and debate them with you. Nobody accepts riots as so-called peaceful protests and nobody is bent on destroying society and throwing out the law book. The entire argument is pathetic and has no merit.

Again, I am not talking Republican or Democrat.

Maybe, but you sure as hell are a Trump supporter and your bias is showing.

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My point is not about 80 million Democrats, 75 million Republicans - that doesn't matter. What matters is that the process is legal to get to those numbers and backed by the Federal constitution.      You must have confidence in those numbers - I sure don't.    The election process needs to be investigated and found to not have fraud.  The MSM is already saying there is nothing to see here - totally debunked.   Meanwhile there are 200 or more affidavits saying otherwise.   Elections need to be transparent.   The fearmongering put forth by the  Democratic run MSM is that investigating elections is a total danger to Democracy.    Completely bogus!

The process is being investigated, in every case Trump and his supporters bring before a court and lose due to a lack of evidence. Their claims simply have no merit, regardless of what they say in the media. Affidavits reflect people's opinions about what they think they have seem. Even if they are all 100% correct, which they clearly are not, they don't add up to massive voter fraud on the scale that Trump is claiming. In an massive operation such a Presidential election, where some 150 million votes are casts will always have problems due to human error. But when a witness complains that he/she wasn't allowed near a particular table and had to stay at least at six feet distance, doesn't mean that something nefarious is going on.

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It is imperative that the process is investigated and shown that Biden won fair and square.  There appeared to be a lot of anomalies when Trump was winning and then after midnight on election night the process reversed.  After a thorough investigation, only then, should the results be legalized and accepted.  The FBI is not investigating any of it nor helping to prove or disprove.   They are absent from the process!   The MSM is not doing any investigative reporting either - merely throwing the carpet over the process and throwing smoke bombs.  That is wrong!   The Democrats never accepted the election results in 2016 and fought for 4 years to overthrow it.   Why now is Biden  suddenly singing its time to "work together" and now you too?  What has changed?

The States have certified Biden as the winner. There have been recounts. There have already been 46 cases tossed out of court. Just how much more do you want? The so-called "anomalies" have already been explained. Mail in votes favored Biden, but because of the Republicans blocking early counting, they were not allowed to be counted before election day. That meant that on election day first the votes were counted from that day, which favored Trump and gave him an initial lead. Once that was done, they started counting the mail in ballots and that reduced Trump's lead to a loss. But some people will never accept the results, regardless of what anybody says, and you seem to be one of those people. For you, it seems, the only fair result would be if Trump wins... That's emotional, not rational.

The Democrats never accepted the election results in 2016 and fought for 4 years to overthrow it.

BS. That's a bogus Republican talking point. Hillary Clinton accepted her defeat within days and Trump brought the impeachment on himself. The problem is that the two party system isn't working (anymore). Just how many investigations did the Republicans start into Benghazi for the sole purpose to damage Hillary Clinton. Not to mention Trump's idiotic birtherism claims to delegitimize Obama's Presidency.

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You should answer that question yourself Mr. Weidmann.   Why were the Democrats so hellbent on destroying the country for the last 4 years instead of trying to work together?  Exactly what has changed now?  They wouldn't accept the results in 2016 and now "let's work together" lol!

The Democrats were not and are not trying to destroy the country. That's Republican paranoia pure and simple. Working together with Trump and the Republican Senate proved to be impossible.

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Your next statement regarding personal protection is to have to hire security?  Isn't that what the police force is supposed to be hired for?   If they would be harder on the criminals, there would be no need for common citizens to arm themselves.  Get the gangs and drugs and lawlessness off the streets.   Why are you so fearful of guns in the hands of common citizens?  Are they the ones committing the crimes or are they apt to use these devices to protect themselves when someone is breaking and entering on their property?    Having guns in the hands of law abiding citizens is healthy because the criminal knows he can't just walk in and do as he pleases on your property.  If police are having their hands tied and do nothing against looters and violent aggressive movements, what are you supposed to do?  Take a knee?   Maybe bend over?

Why are you so fearful of guns in the hands of common citizens? 

I'm not, as long as they are responsible citizens. Unfortunately, many weapons are owned (and used) by people who should not have them but who can easily obtain them. Let me ask you this, do you think it's normal and acceptable for people to be carrying semi-automatic and automatic rifles at a demonstration in Michigan? Is that ok for you?

Are they the ones committing the crimes or are they apt to use these devices to protect themselves when someone is breaking and entering on their property?

The likelihood of them needing to protect themselves becomes considerably less when the number of weapons on the street are massively reduced. Why do I need to be 100% on my guard whenever I am in the United States, and hardly at all when I am in Europe? Although they have stricter gunlaws in most European countries, there are always going to be people who do own guns, legal or note but the numbers are far smaller than in the US.

Having guns in the hands of law abiding citizens is healthy because the criminal knows he can't just walk in and do as he pleases on your property.

BS.. It only leads to escalation. What you propose is the beginning of an arms race, with the NAR laughing all the way to the bank. And maybe for you it's not a problem to have a semi-automatic weapon in the house but I have a different opinion. UI can understand having a handgun, like a revolver, for protection, but an AK-47... Really? Do you really think that only law abiding citizens can obtain such weapons? Some of those people who own weapons are so tightly wound that they burst into violence, just like that nice "law abiding" Karl Rittenhouse who takes a semi-automatic weapon to a potentially violent demonstration and leaves two people dead in his wake. Self defence? Yeah right....If he wanted to protect himself, he shouldn't have gone there!

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While COVID-19 is deadly, The average age of death the MSM is reporting is........?    School kids are dying and spreading at what rate?   Is anyone in the MSM reporting how many people use to die every day normally; or how many people are dying at the same time from regular flu which is killing the elderly as well?    Nothing reported.  I think we should be routinely alerted and not just mesmerized with fear.   However, you don't need to know that do you!   During the COVID pandemic, deaths due to heart attacks has gone down.   Living healthier now by staying indoors.   The MSM has weaponized the fear factor and politicize it.   If you recall in 911, there were different "terrorist threat levels", red, yellow orange etc.    Then there was the anthrax scare.   Fear is the key to controlling the peasants.

3000 + deaths in one day and the number is rising. The virus is out of control and Trump and his ilk are doing nothing to slow it down. And you are wrong, I do need to know, because I belong to the most vulnarable group. I'm staying indoors not because they tell me, but because I want to. Those who advocate lifting restrictions and who refuse to wear a mask are not doing anybody a favor. Since the States have opened back up there has been an explosion of new cases and each person who gets infected and suffers only light symptons can still pass the virus on to somebody who will die from it. Who in their right mind would want to take such a risk?

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Second point, you seem to know alot about Flynn.  When he lied to the FBI, what was he being accused of?    Did he talk to the Russian Ambassador to ask for hackers for the election?   They never uncovered anything - save that "He LIED TO THEM."   Strangely, later he changed his plea - they had nothing on him.  It wasn't bogus.  Was he colluding with Russia to make a MOAB or push a reset button like Hilary?   Exactly what was the nature of what he was being accused of by the FBI besides lying?   Nothing there there!  But he lied and we got him!

You really need to get a more balanced flow of information. When he lied to the FBI, he was accused of lying to the FBI. What the subject matter of the lie was is not important. He told the FBI he did not talk to the Russian Ambassador, when they had the evidence that he did. That's enough. There was nothing bogus about it. Lying to a Federal investigator and the VP is a criminal offence, so yes, he lied and they caught him. He pleaded guilty twice and ultimately needed to be bailed out by a pardon from Trump.

Exactly what was the nature of what he was being accused of by the FBI besides lying? Nothing there there!

What kind of idiotic question is this? Lying to the FBI is a criminal offense. It doesn't matter what you are lying about. Even if you did something as harmless as stealing a cookie from the jar, to moment you deny it and thus knowingly lie about, when asked by an FBI agent, it's an offense. Obviously he lied about far more important stuff, like his contacts with the Russian Ambassador prior to being in office. It is totally beyond me how you can be so big on law and order without being concerned that (future) Government officials lie to investigators?

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Freedom does not come from owning arms, it never has and never will.  Freedom means being able to have discussion, talk and work together.  It means you having full control of your life and sharing it with others and being able to think for yourself and make decision.  It means law and order, less taxes and freedom to enjoy life.  Freedom comes when you have a society that allows you to work and protects you from those that don't want to or think that you owe them a living and do nothing.  Have you ever thought about that?

Freedom does not come from owning arms, it never has and never will.  Freedom means being able to have discussion, talk and work together.

Sure, but even freedom to talk has it's limits. You can not use the freedom of speech to lie about something and prejudice another person.

It means you having full control of your life and sharing it with others and being able to think for yourself and make decision.

The only way that any one person will have full control of their life is when that person is the only person on the planet. The mere fact that there are some many people on this planet makes it necessary to regulate. You can't have everybody just running around and doing what they please.

It means law and order, less taxes and freedom to enjoy life.

Sure, everybody wants that. I don't like paying taxes but I understand that it is necessary so that the community can keep on functioning. You wouldn't enjoy your life so much if nobody collected you garbage, if there was no money to keep criminals in jail and so on, but you want to pay as less as you can.... Is that you?

Freedom comes when you have a society that allows you to work and protects you from those that don't want to or think that you owe them a living and do nothing. Have you ever thought about that?

Yes I have, but who said life is fair? There are a great many things wrong in this world. Always have been and always will be. There will always be people who play games and abuse the system, and in a weird kinda way the kind of personal freedom that you advocate allows them to do it....

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Freedom of speech is being threatened even more everyday, now with youtube censoring what you can see!  I noticed they already censored the CNN vote switching video I posted yesterday.
https://thepalmierireport.com/youtube-announces-it-will-remove-videos-exposing-2020-election-fraud/

The problem with freedom of speech is that it is very often and very quickly abused to the extend that people think they can say anything they like without consequence. You Tube has stated that all States have certified the election results which show that Joe Biden is the winner. That makes all the video that proclaim massive, yet unproven, conspiracies about fraud to be misinformation. They made the right call.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 11:58:07 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2786 on: December 10, 2020, 12:54:59 PM »
Well, well, 17 states have now joined Texas's lawsuit against the election results in Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/17-states-file-brief-backing-texas-election-lawsuit-against-ga-mi-pa-wi

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2786 on: December 10, 2020, 12:54:59 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2787 on: December 10, 2020, 01:29:29 PM »
Well, well, 17 states have now joined Texas's lawsuit against the election results in Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/17-states-file-brief-backing-texas-election-lawsuit-against-ga-mi-pa-wi

And they are all Republican controlled (what a surprise) and they will all be disappointed when SCOTUS rules against them.

There is no way SCOTUS is going to throw out all the votes in four States on the basis of unproven allegations of voter fraud. If they do, there will for sure be riots in the streets. But there's a more important reason why SCOTUS will not intervene; if they do we can do away with elections all together because of the precedent they will be setting as it means that from now on every election, and thus the selection of a President, will ultimately be decided by SCOTUS.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2788 on: December 10, 2020, 01:36:31 PM »
And they are all Republican controlled (what a surprise) and they will all be disappointed when SCOTUS rules against them.

There is no way SCOTUS is going to throw out all the votes in four States on the basis of unproven allegations of voter fraud. If they do, there will for sure be riots in the streets. But there's a more important reason why SCOTUS will not intervene; if they do we can do away with elections all together because of the precedent they will be setting as it means that from now on every election, and thus the selection of a President, will ultimately be decided by SCOTUS.

The only riots are those of laughter.....still pushing the lame duck coup. Supposed to be chickens in a coup I thought. LOL.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2788 on: December 10, 2020, 01:36:31 PM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2789 on: December 10, 2020, 01:47:20 PM »
And they are all Republican controlled (what a surprise) and they will all be disappointed when SCOTUS rules against them.

There is no way SCOTUS is going to throw out all the votes in four States on the basis of unproven allegations of voter fraud. If they do, there will for sure be riots in the streets. But there's a more important reason why SCOTUS will not intervene; if they do we can do away with elections all together because of the precedent they will be setting as it means that from now on every election, and thus the selection of a President, will ultimately be decided by SCOTUS.

You are still clueless. What those 18 states are suing for is to have done what should have been done from the outset: (1) to have the signatures on all mail-in ballots verified by standard/valid criteria and with bipartisan observers present, (2) to have all the ballots that were received after the legal deadlines disqualified, and (3) to have an independent forensic analysis done on the Dominion machines and software in conjunction with a forensic analysis of the tabulations done by those machines and software.

Yeah, I bet that if the Supreme Court followed the law and ordered those four states to take these reasonable actions, you would have left-wing thugs rioting in the streets because they don't care about honest elections and following the law.

I keep asking this, and I'll ask it again: How in the world do you explain the fact that in numerous key counties in those states, the mail-in ballot rejection rate was three, four, and as much as 12 times lower than the historical average, even though, for obvious reasons, we had far, far more mail-in ballots than in any previous election? As many data experts have pointed out, if the mail-in ballots in PA, MI, WI, and GA had been rejected at the average historical rate, Trump would have won. Give me a break.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2790 on: December 10, 2020, 02:01:10 PM »
You are still clueless. What those 18 states are suing for is to have done what should have been done from the outset: (1) to have the signatures on all mail-in ballots verified by standard/valid criteria and with bipartisan observers present, (2) to have all the ballots that were received after the legal deadlines disqualified, and (3) to have an independent forensic analysis done on the Dominion machines and software in conjunction with a forensic analysis of the tabulations done by those machines and software.


And you call me clueless? Those states can not interfere in the way another state conducts it's business. If they had a problem with procedures or the use of Dominion machines they should have complained prior to the election and not after. Don't even try to pretend this is to protect honest elections and the law, because if Trump had won those states none of these complaints would have been made.

Also, if SCOTUS would throw out all the votes in those four states, they would be throwing out perfectly legally votes because of a procedural matter. There is no way that's going to happen. Even less so, as on those same ballots are also all sorts of other election votes which would be invalidated as well, for no apparent reason.

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Yeah, I bet that if the Supreme Court followed the law and ordered those four states to take these reasonable actions, you would have left-wing thugs rioting in the streets because they don't care about honest elections and following the law.

BS.. If SCOTUS grants the motion, many people would rightfully feel that their vote was stolen from them.

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I keep asking this, and I'll ask it again: How in the world do you explain the fact that in numerous key counties in those states, the mail-in ballot rejection rate was three, four, and as much as 12 times lower than the historical average, even though, for obvious reasons, we had far, far more mail-in ballots than in any previous election? As many data experts have pointed out, if the mail-in ballots in PA, MI, WI, and GA had been rejected at the average historical rate, Trump would have won. Give me a break.

I'm not going to explain something that the courts have already dismissed time after time.

Bottom line is that we had a fair election and that Trump and his ilk can not prove otherwise, which means that the only reason Trumps wants votes thrown out is to steal the election.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 02:10:17 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2791 on: December 10, 2020, 02:24:43 PM »
And you call me clueless? Those states can not interfere in the way another state conducts it's business. If they had a problem with procedures or the use of Dominion machines they should have complained prior to the election and not after. Don't even try to pretend this is to protect honest elections and the law, because if Trump had won those states none of these complaints would have been made.

In other words, never mind that those four states broke the law, counted illegal votes, illegally extended deadlines, illegally ignored legal procedural requirements, counted thousands of ballots multiple times, etc., etc. Nay, who needs honest elections, as long as your guy "wins," right?

Also, if SCOTUS would throw out all the votes in those four states, they would be throwing out perfectly legally votes because of a procedural matter. There is no way that's going to happen. Even less so, as on those same ballots are also all sorts of other election votes which would be invalidated as well, for no apparent reason.

What utter hogwash. Sheesh, have you read a single page of the evidence of voter fraud? "Procedural matters"!!! Yeah, like not scanning thousands of ballot multiple times, like not accepting mail-in ballots with no postmark, like not accepting mail-in ballots that were mailed after the lawfully established deadline, like not doing legally required signature verification on mail-in ballots, etc., etc. And this is not to mention the documented tabulation irregularities in the Dominion voting machines' tabulations.

BS.. If SCOTUS grants the motion, many people would rightfully feel that their vote was stolen from them.

Then that would make those people idiots and/or crooks. No one has a "right" to have their ballot counted 10 times. No one has a "right" to have their mail-in ballot counted if they couldn't manage to mail it in the legally established four-week period. No one has a "right" to have their mail-in ballot counted if the signatures on the envelope and the ballot clearly do not match or if there's no signature at all on the envelope.

I'm not going to explain something that the courts have already dismissed time after time.

In other words, you can't explain it, so you fall back on the summary, superficial rulings of corrupt or spineless judges, none of which made any effort to explain the suspiciously low mail-in ballot rejection rates.

Bottom line is that we had a fair election and that Trump and his ilk can not prove otherwise, which means that the only reason Trumps wants votes thrown out is to steal the election.

What idiocy. No, we did not have a "fair" election, and so far you have punted every time I've asked you to explain the clear evidence of voter fraud. Just because Democratic judges have summarily dismissed valid, fact-based lawsuits does not mean the voter-fraud evidence can be wished away.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2791 on: December 10, 2020, 02:24:43 PM »