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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 413045 times)

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2416 on: November 14, 2020, 01:57:19 AM »
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More blatant lies and disinformation. We currently have the highest death and infection rate which is at its worst point since the pandemic started. Moderators should remove your posts because it's dangerous and false. Why do you continue to post COVID-19 disinformation? What's your agenda? What's your goal?

New Zealand beat the virus because of strict lockdowns. That's the only way to stop the spread. 

New Zealand Stamps Out Coronavirus For A Second Time: Strict Lockdowns Helped Eliminate Transmission of The Virus
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/world/australia/new-zealand-coronavirus.html

US officials warn of tens of thousands more Covid deaths in coming weeks
CDC warning comes amid threat of PPE and bed shortages
New coronavirus cases increase with 150,000 on Thursday

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/13/us-coronavirus-covid-deaths-cdc-warning

COVID-19 Deaths in the U.S. Have Taken a Turn for the Worse
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-11-10/covid-deaths-in-the-us-are-poised-to-surge-model-shows

CDC projects up to 282,000 Covid-19 deaths by December, a new forecast shows
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

U.S. reports record 153,400 new Covid cases
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/13/us-reports-record-153400-new-covid-cases-as-dr-fauci-urges-americans-to-be-careful-it-is-not-futile.html

Coronavirus U.S. Numbers

Cases Yesterday: 162,226
Deaths Yesterday: 1,186

Cases Today (so far): 177, 249
Deaths Today (so far): 1,364

So, the day isn't even over yet and we exceed yesterday's case and death total by the thousands. Donald Trump a d the GOP are disgrace infecting and killing thousands of people. Michael T Griffith is posting blatant bogus disinformation on COVID-19.       

 

Rick it’s apples and oranges I'm afraid. NZ was able to go for eradication because of the low numbers, isolation and aggressive lockdown including shutting all borders. Here in Australia we went for mitigation strategy initially, similar to US, remember "lowering the curve". We went harder and a bit earlier than the US and are now in a position similar to NZ, where eradication has been seen as a possible strategy for a few months. I’m afraid that the US has so much widespread community infection that even a lockdown at this stage will take months to have a real effect. My fear is, unless you do, your health system and it’s workers seem to be at point of overload with numbers increasing exponentially.

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2416 on: November 14, 2020, 01:57:19 AM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2417 on: November 14, 2020, 03:04:04 AM »

I'm 99% certain that liberal news outlets are not going to mention this, so I will: The COVID-19 case death rate in the U.S. continues to drop. Two weeks ago, it was at 2.6%. Now, as of this morning, it is down to 2.3% (243K deaths/10.6 million cases). That means the average survival rate is up to 97.7%.

At one point during the lockdowns, the case death rate was at 5.67%. Gee, why is it that when states began to reopen and allowed people resume normal lives, the death rate almost immediately began to decrease? Maybe because forcing people to be cooped up at home for weeks is not the best way to deal with the virus?

Mr. Griffith is talking about the death rate of those who do get infected. The number dying each day in the United States is going up, not down. Around a month ago it was 750 a day. Now it is 1,100 a day and going up.

I am almost positive the lowering of the death rate of those who have gotten the virus is due to doctor’s improved knowledge of what treatment works best. They seem very good at spreading information to other doctors pretty fast.



And, Sweden's COVID-19 success story continues: While the U.S. has averaged about 800 deaths per day since August, Sweden has averaged about 4 deaths per day since August. If we adjust Sweden's numbers to our population size, that would equal about 130 deaths per day in Sweden, 82% lower than our average deaths per day.

In the early summer I thought Sweden was handling it well. Clearly, their strategy has not worked out.



But if Biden does take office, you can bet that the Democrats will continue to ignore fact and logic and will seek to impose their panic posture on the rest of us.

I am not panicked but damm concerned. In the U. S., the daily infection rate is getting up there, 400 people per million. Worst, the rate has been doubling every 21 days or less. If this keeps up for 4 more winter months, it will be over 10,000 people a day for every million people. Obviously, it won’t get that bad, I don’t think, because at some point people will start to hide from others if they must. And hopefully, the vaccine will start taking effect. But the worst months are ahead despite the increase in medical knowledge. Hopefully, people will start to get more careful, as they have in the past when the rates went up. But clearly, winter weather is having a very bad effect.


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"Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid.' By the way, on November 4, you won't hear about it anymore,"

Our President Trump, October 24, 2020.

What an idiot. Does he listen to Dr. Anthony Fauci? Does he listen to any doctor? Has he never heard of the cold and flu season? Right now, all his attention seems to be devoted to attempting to become President for Life. What do elections matter if you can somehow get the courts (he’s dreaming) to overrule the voter count, Well, if successful, I guess he would have to follow Putin’s example and let Pence be the official President from 2025-2029 before resuming.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2418 on: November 14, 2020, 03:41:41 AM »
Barnum's calculation was an underestimate. Trump's next book, "The Art of the Grift".

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2418 on: November 14, 2020, 03:41:41 AM »


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2419 on: November 14, 2020, 12:13:03 PM »
More blatant lies and disinformation. We currently have the highest death and infection rate which is at its worst point since the pandemic started. Moderators should remove your posts because it's dangerous and false. Why do you continue to post COVID-19 disinformation? What's your agenda? What's your goal?

What?! Moderators should remove your posts for sheer stupidity. We do not "currently have the highest" death rate since the pandemic started. That is demonstrably false, as anyone can confirm by checking the CDC site, the Johns Hopkins site, or the WHO site. During the lockdowns, the death rate got as high as 5.67%. But, it began to drop dramatically after states began to reopen, and it is now at  2.3% (243K deaths/10.6 million cases). That means the average survival rate is up to 97.7%. Can you do basic math?

Part of the problem is that you guys keep focusing on case numbers and ignore the dramatic drop in the death rate. You just don't seem to care that the death rate has dropped to 2.3%, which means that the average survival rate is 97.7%

New Zealand beat the virus because of strict lockdowns. That's the only way to stop the spread. 

New Zealand Stamps Out Coronavirus For A Second Time: Strict Lockdowns Helped Eliminate Transmission of The Virus
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/07/world/australia/new-zealand-coronavirus.html

I've already answered this liberal talking point, and you keep ignoring the answer and just keep on citing liberal rags like the New York Times. New Zealand is an ISLAND and has a very low population density. How about we talk about Taiwan, which has a much higher population density--24 million people in 14K square miles vs. New Zealand's 4.8 million people in 103K square miles? Taiwan refused to impose a lockdown and kept its businesses and schools open--and Taiwan has the lowest infection and death rates in the world.

US officials warn of tens of thousands more Covid deaths in coming weeks
CDC warning comes amid threat of PPE and bed shortages
New coronavirus cases increase with 150,000 on Thursday

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/13/us-coronavirus-covid-deaths-cdc-warning

COVID-19 Deaths in the U.S. Have Taken a Turn for the Worse
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-11-10/covid-deaths-in-the-us-are-poised-to-surge-model-shows

CDC projects up to 282,000 Covid-19 deaths by December, a new forecast shows
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/12/health/us-coronavirus-thursday/index.html

U.S. reports record 153,400 new Covid cases
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/13/us-reports-record-153400-new-covid-cases-as-dr-fauci-urges-americans-to-be-careful-it-is-not-futile.html

Coronavirus U.S. Numbers

Cases Yesterday: 162,226
Deaths Yesterday: 1,186

Cases Today (so far): 177, 249
Deaths Today (so far): 1,364

So, the day isn't even over yet and we exceed yesterday's case and death total by the thousands. Donald Trump a d the GOP are disgrace infecting and killing thousands of people. Michael T Griffith is posting blatant bogus disinformation on COVID-19.

HOGWASH! You are just too ignorant to do basic math. You keep focusing on case numbers. Look at the death rate, since that is the key stat. I dare you to divide the number of cases by the number of deaths. If you do so, if you know how, you will see that the death rate is now down to 2.3%. Then, go back to the middle of the lockdowns and do the same calculation, and you will see that the death rate was consistently well over 5% for weeks during the lockdowns.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 12:20:48 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2420 on: November 14, 2020, 12:17:35 PM »
And Trump has not conceded because there is substantial evidence of widespread voter fraud in WI, MI, GA, NV, and PA. Some of this evidence was captured **on video,** so to blindly claim that there's "zero evidence of election fraud" is absurd and dishonest.

What's it like to live in an alternate "reality" where you can make up your own "facts"?

So you are saying the videos are fake? Is that what you're saying? How about the hundreds of thousands that have been discovered to have only votes for Biden on them and no votes for other candidates or proposed amendments? How about the whistleblowers who have come forward about fraud involving mail-in ballots? How about the fact that in some counties, Democratic turnout was over 80%, sometimes over 90%, a phenomenon that is not only markedly unprecedented but that election analysts say is essentially impossible.

Not only has Trump lost every court case that has already been decided (that should tell you something, but it probably won't), but so far the lawyers have not been able to produce any evidence of fraud in any of those cases.

Wow, talk about "alternate reality"! What do you mean Trump's lawyers have been unable "to produce any evidence of fraud"? That is pure fiction. I guess the left-wing news sources you trust are telling you there is no such evidence, and you are not bothering to examine the other side. You might start with this summary of the evidence by Trump election attorney Sidney Powell--then come back and tell me with a straight face that Trump's lawyers have cited no evidence of election fraud:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6208201476001#sp=show-clips

And I ask you again, are you saying that the videos that show election fraud have been faked?

I'm guessing you have not heard this, but a PA state judge just ruled two days ago that the extension of the voting deadline was illegal and that all votes received after the legal deadline will *not* count.

That's a legal matter and has nothing to do with fraud. The opinion of one judge is of little value in the bigger scheme of things. The legal problem is not with the validity of the ballots. It's about when they were received. Given that the people possibly may have been misinformed about a deadline can not automatically lead to the invalidation of their votes, so don't get your hopes up that those votes will be thrown out.

Uh, violating election law is a form of election fraud, so this has everything to do with election fraud. Do you care about the law? Do you believe elected officials should follow election law until it is changed via the democratic process? By Pennsylvania law, no ballots can be counted if they are received after election day, except for absentee ballots of military and diplomatic personnel stationed in other states and overseas. But the state's Democratic governor and secretary of state decided that the law was "unfair" and issued illegal orders to extend the deadline. Thankfully, the judge followed the law.

And today the state of Georgia has begun its manual recount, although liberal news outlets are virtually ignoring this big story. If the recount puts the state clearly in Trump's column, that will be an important step in undoing Biden's theft of the election.

It's only a "big" story to Trump supporters because they hope and pray that the automatically triggered manual recount will end in a positive result for Trump. This also has nothing to do with fraud and/or Biden "stealing" the election. In the meantime Biden has been declared the winner in Georgia, bringing his total in the electoral college to 306.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Recounts are not automatic under Georgia law. If the margin of victory is below 1% or 0.5%, depending on the level of the election, a candidate can request a recount, but a recount is not automatic but is at the discretion of the Georgia secretary of state.

Whatever "news" sources told you that recounts are automatic in Georgia were wrong. You might want to consider expanding your news sources to include sources like The Federalist, The Daily Wire, The Blaze, Just the News, and Newsmax.

Democrats and their media pawns are trying very hard to make it seem like the election is over and that Biden won. Funny how they did the opposite in 2000.

Did your biased and very selective memory forget what the Republicans were saying 4 years ago?

Ohhhhhhh! Really???!!!!! And how about what Democrats said about Stacey Abrams' race in Georgia *two years ago*? She demanded a recount, lost the recount, and never did concede, and you guys thought that was just fine. Or how about the 2000 election, when Al Gore refused to concede for **35 days**, when he lost the statewide recount, demanded recounts only in heavily Democratic counties, and then tried to get away with a phony statewide recount that was only going to recount the undervotes (since Gore believed the undervotes would tilt heavily for him)? Huh? You guys screamed bloody murder that Gore was entirely justified in refusing to concede and in demanding selective recounts.

Or how about Hillary's emphatic comment just a few months ago that Biden should not concede under any circumstances if he thought there was any indication of voter fraud? Hey? You people are incredible hypocrites.

Btw, as far as covid is concerned, let's compare the Scandinavian countries as per today;

Norway:     26503 infections and 291 deaths
Finland:     18542 infections and 365 deaths
Denmark:  58963 infections and 755 deaths

Sweden: 171365 infections and 6122 deaths

Yeah, Sweden is doing really well.... pffffffffff

You have a problem with honesty, don't you? We both know that you have misleadingly cherry-picked your comparison countries. I think you and I have had this discussion before. As I have pointed out several times, Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than those of several other European nations and worse than those of other nations. Sweden falls somewhere toward the middle when it comes to COVID-19 numbers, yet Sweden has done this without suffering nearly as much economic damage as those other nations because Sweden had the good sense not to impose a lockdown but to keep businesses and most schools open.

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August, and that if you adjust for population size, Sweden has had over 80% fewer daily deaths than America has had.

Or, let's compare Sweden's nearly flatline number of daily deaths to France's. Over the last 30 days, France has averaged nearly 500 daily deaths, compared to Sweden's average of 4 daily deaths. If we adjust Sweden's numbers for France's population size (66 million), 4 daily deaths equals 26 daily deaths. This means that Sweden's number of daily deaths, adjusted for population size, is over 6 times lower than France's number of daily deaths.

Facts are stubborn things.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 12:23:37 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2420 on: November 14, 2020, 12:17:35 PM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2421 on: November 14, 2020, 01:07:59 PM »
Let's just be realistic about the US problem. The position you find yourself in is largely because the testing employed early was faulty. You had community transmission in Washington State early and then New York. The infectious nature of the virus was unknown as it was novel. Michael likes to refer to Taiwan, they had considerable experience with SARS a few years ago and a culture that has little issue with masking. Their society generally are "con formative" to government edicts.

You can argue about survival rates increasing all you want. This is largely because methods of treatment for those hospitalised have improved significantly since the initial outbreak. However your hospital systems are becoming overwhelmed and so unless the numbers can be curtailed the fatality rates will increase due to lack of facilities.

As for Trump and stolen elections, please explain why the thieves decided not to steal the senate and house seats. Anything? 

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2422 on: November 14, 2020, 01:19:00 PM »

So you are saying the videos are fake? Is that what you're saying? How about the hundreds of thousands that have been discovered to have only votes for Biden on them and no votes for other candidates or proposed amendments? How about the whistleblowers who have come forward about fraud involving mail-in ballots? How about the fact that in some counties, Democratic turnout was over 80%, sometimes over 90%, a phenomenon that is not only markedly unprecedented but that election analysts say is essentially impossible.


You are seeing what you want to see in those videos and pictures, or even worse what Guiliani and his ilk wants you to see. There are no "hundreds of thousands ballots that have only votes for Biden on them". You can not show one instance, one courtfiling in which any proof for this BS allegation is provided. It simply doesn't exist. Trump's lawyers in PA haven't cut ties with the Trump team for nothing. As officers of the court they risk their licence and reputation when they provide false information to the court.

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Wow, talk about "alternate reality"! What do you mean Trump's lawyers have been unable "to produce any evidence of fraud"? That is pure fiction. I guess the left-wing news sources you trust are telling you there is no such evidence, and you are not bothering to examine the other side. You might start with this summary of the evidence by Trump election attorney Sidney Powell--then come back and tell me with a straight face that Trump's lawyers have cited no evidence of election fraud:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6208201476001#sp=show-clips

And I ask you again, are you saying that the videos that show election fraud have been faked?


My words speak for themselves. I can't help it that you are so extremely gullible that you believe everything a lawyer says. Regardless of what Trump's lawyers say in the media, there hasn't been a shred of evidence provided in any the ten court cases the Trump team has already lost.

It doesn't matter what the likes of Guiliani, Sekulow and Powell claim they have. What matters is what they show the courts and so far they haven't shown anything of any significance. But don't believe me... The court's rulings are in the public domain. Why don't you try reading those before you say anything else that's completely stupid.

Btw, there is an easy way to verify (at least to some extend) the validity of the outrageous claims made by Powell on Fox News, on November 8. She is talking about a massive conspiracy to defraud the American people and to interfere with the elections. If true, those are serious crimes, yet, despite Bill Barr authorizing prosecutors to investigate, a week later no such investigation  has been started.

Even worse, Richard Pilger, director of the Election Crimes Branch of the Department of Justice, has resigned in protest about Barr's action as there is no credible evidence of any kind of fraud.


Quote
Uh, violating election law is a form of election fraud, so this has everything to do with election fraud. Do you care about the law? Do you believe elected officials should follow election law until it is changed via the democratic process? By Pennsylvania law, no ballots can be counted if they are received after election day, except for absentee ballots of military and diplomatic personnel stationed in other states and overseas. But the state's Democratic governor and secretary of state decided that the law was "unfair" and issued illegal orders to extend the deadline. Thankfully, the judge followed the law.


So, you are clueless about what constitutes a fraud and how the legal system works. Got it! 

And btw, no ballots have been thrown out in PA.

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Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Recounts are not automatic under Georgia law. If the margin of victory is below 1% or 0.5%, depending on the level of the election, a candidate can request a recount, but a recount is not automatic but is at the discretion of the Georgia secretary of state.

Whatever "news" sources told you that recounts are automatic in Georgia were wrong. You might want to consider expanding your news sources to include sources like The Federalist, The Daily Wire, The Blaze, Just the News, and Newsmax.

Newsmax? Really.... I have seen some of their output and found it highly comical and entertaining. If you consider that a credible news source you are not worth debating.

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Ohhhhhhh! Really???!!!!! And how about what Democrats said about Stacey Abrams' race in Georgia *two years ago*? She demanded a recount, lost the recount, and never did concede, and you guys thought that was just fine. Or how about the 2000 election, when Al Gore refused to concede for **35 days**, when he lost the statewide recount, demanded recounts only in heavily Democratic counties, and then tried to get away with a phony statewide recount that was only going to recount the undervotes (since Gore believed the undervotes would tilt heavily for him)? Huh? You guys screamed bloody murder that Gore was entirely justified in refusing to concede and in demanding selective recounts.

Or how about Hillary's emphatic comment just a few months ago that Biden should not concede under any circumstances if he thought there was any indication of voter fraud? Hey? You people are incredible hypocrites.

Pathetic.

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You have a problem with honesty, don't you? We both know that you have misleadingly cherry-picked your comparison countries. I think you and I have had this discussion before. As I have pointed out several times, Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than those of several other European nations and worse than those of other nations. Sweden falls somewhere toward the middle when it comes to COVID-19 numbers, yet Sweden has done this without suffering nearly as much economic damage as those other nations because Sweden had the good sense not to impose a lockdown but to keep businesses and most schools open.

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August, and that if you adjust for population size, Sweden has had over 80% fewer daily deaths than America has had.

Or, let's compare Sweden's nearly flatline number of daily deaths to France's. Over the last 30 days, France has averaged nearly 500 daily deaths, compared to Sweden's average of 4 daily deaths. If we adjust Sweden's numbers for France's population size (66 million), 4 daily deaths equals 26 daily deaths. This means that Sweden's number of daily deaths, adjusted for population size, is over 6 times lower than France's number of daily deaths.

Facts are stubborn things.

You have a problem with honesty, don't you?

Nope, I have a problem with your kind of "honesty".

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August,

As has the Covid-19 death rate in most European countries... I have been In Europe since the outbreak of the pandemic in March and follow the news on a daily basis. All over Europe infections are up again but the death rate is down compared to the first three months of the pandemic. Unlike in America where the infection rate and the death rate are both still climbing. Anybody who denies that is an absolute idiot.

Facts are stubborn things.

The BS that you make up are not facts.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 02:41:53 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2423 on: November 14, 2020, 02:18:13 PM »
For Michael.....balance this with your lower death rate....


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2423 on: November 14, 2020, 02:18:13 PM »