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Author Topic: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2  (Read 413044 times)

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2456 on: November 16, 2020, 01:01:31 AM »
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Rick it’s apples and oranges I'm afraid. NZ was able to go for eradication because of the low numbers, isolation and aggressive lockdown including shutting all borders. Here in Australia we went for mitigation strategy initially, similar to US, remember "lowering the curve". We went harder and a bit earlier than the US and are now in a position similar to NZ, where eradication has been seen as a possible strategy for a few months. I’m afraid that the US has so much widespread community infection that even a lockdown at this stage will take months to have a real effect. My fear is, unless you do, your health system and it’s workers seem to be at point of overload with numbers increasing exponentially.

Colin,

If the United States had competent leadership, this virus wouldn't have gotten out of control and thousands of lives would have been saved. Not to mention, our lives would have been more normal than what we have been facing the last 8 months.

Donald Trump knew from the beginning that COVID-19 was a deadly airborne virus. He admitted to Bob Woodward on tape telling him "he wanted to always downplay the virus". That lead to tens of thousands of deaths because of him.

Right from the get go, Donald Trump lied about COVID-19 calling it a "hoax" and sought to politicize a non political virus. Instead of fighting to save Americans, he wanted to attack Democrats and downplay the virus because he thought it would help him win an election but he failed miserably.   

The right wing media from day one downplayed the virus and started putting out disinformation that posters here parrot. They also caused massive death in this country. People listened to their lies and blew the virus off as a joke and spread the virus around their communities.

We had no national plan that would have helped to combat the virus. Some states had restrictions and red states had none so sick people crossing state lines continued to spread COVID. Most states saw significant improvement and then Donald Trump started demanding states to open and told his deranged cult to force states to open. That's when we lost the war on COVID.

Donald Trump wants herd immunity and doesn't care how many people get sick or die. He held many hate rallies that exploded the spreading of the virus. Over 1 million new cases were recorded this week. Hospitals are at full capacity so new sick patients that require hospitalization won't be able to be admitted. Over 1200 deaths are being recorded each day. Right wingers refuse to lock down or do anything to stop the spread. They are engaging in mass murder.

Immediate lockdowns tomorrow would help stop the spread of the virus and so would wearing masks where eventually we would see progress being made.

There are only two options. Do nothing want watch the economy go under and witness massive death and infection or lockdown and get this virus under control.                 

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2456 on: November 16, 2020, 01:01:31 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2457 on: November 16, 2020, 01:07:17 AM »
What?! Moderators should remove your posts for sheer stupidity. We do not "currently have the highest" death rate since the pandemic started. That is demonstrably false, as anyone can confirm by checking the CDC site, the Johns Hopkins site, or the WHO site. During the lockdowns, the death rate got as high as 5.67%. But, it began to drop dramatically after states began to reopen, and it is now at  2.3% (243K deaths/10.6 million cases). That means the average survival rate is up to 97.7%. Can you do basic math?

Part of the problem is that you guys keep focusing on case numbers and ignore the dramatic drop in the death rate. You just don't seem to care that the death rate has dropped to 2.3%, which means that the average survival rate is 97.7%

I've already answered this liberal talking point, and you keep ignoring the answer and just keep on citing liberal rags like the New York Times. New Zealand is an ISLAND and has a very low population density. How about we talk about Taiwan, which has a much higher population density--24 million people in 14K square miles vs. New Zealand's 4.8 million people in 103K square miles? Taiwan refused to impose a lockdown and kept its businesses and schools open--and Taiwan has the lowest infection and death rates in the world.

HOGWASH! You are just too ignorant to do basic math. You keep focusing on case numbers. Look at the death rate, since that is the key stat. I dare you to divide the number of cases by the number of deaths. If you do so, if you know how, you will see that the death rate is now down to 2.3%. Then, go back to the middle of the lockdowns and do the same calculation, and you will see that the death rate was consistently well over 5% for weeks during the lockdowns.

No, I'm posting facts as always, you are spreading lies and disinformation which is dangerous. The death rate is NOT dropping, it's recording record highs. You are lying. We are recording record number of infections each day. You are lying and your b.s. disinformation has been easily debunked. What's your agenda by purposely posting disinformation?   

U.S. records 1 million new coronavirus cases in the past 6 days
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/u-s-sees-1-million-new-coronavirus-cases-in-the-past-6-days-01605478933

U.S. coronavirus deaths accelerate to an average of 1,100 a day
https://www.axios.com/us-covid-deaths-surge-near-summer-levels-b1fee672-d658-449b-90b9-b30c407a8d3a.html



Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2458 on: November 16, 2020, 01:13:46 AM »
So you are saying the videos are fake? Is that what you're saying? How about the hundreds of thousands that have been discovered to have only votes for Biden on them and no votes for other candidates or proposed amendments? How about the whistleblowers who have come forward about fraud involving mail-in ballots? How about the fact that in some counties, Democratic turnout was over 80%, sometimes over 90%, a phenomenon that is not only markedly unprecedented but that election analysts say is essentially impossible.

Wow, talk about "alternate reality"! What do you mean Trump's lawyers have been unable "to produce any evidence of fraud"? That is pure fiction. I guess the left-wing news sources you trust are telling you there is no such evidence, and you are not bothering to examine the other side. You might start with this summary of the evidence by Trump election attorney Sidney Powell--then come back and tell me with a straight face that Trump's lawyers have cited no evidence of election fraud:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6208201476001#sp=show-clips

And I ask you again, are you saying that the videos that show election fraud have been faked?

Uh, violating election law is a form of election fraud, so this has everything to do with election fraud. Do you care about the law? Do you believe elected officials should follow election law until it is changed via the democratic process? By Pennsylvania law, no ballots can be counted if they are received after election day, except for absentee ballots of military and diplomatic personnel stationed in other states and overseas. But the state's Democratic governor and secretary of state decided that the law was "unfair" and issued illegal orders to extend the deadline. Thankfully, the judge followed the law.

Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. Recounts are not automatic under Georgia law. If the margin of victory is below 1% or 0.5%, depending on the level of the election, a candidate can request a recount, but a recount is not automatic but is at the discretion of the Georgia secretary of state.

Whatever "news" sources told you that recounts are automatic in Georgia were wrong. You might want to consider expanding your news sources to include sources like The Federalist, The Daily Wire, The Blaze, Just the News, and Newsmax.

Ohhhhhhh! Really???!!!!! And how about what Democrats said about Stacey Abrams' race in Georgia *two years ago*? She demanded a recount, lost the recount, and never did concede, and you guys thought that was just fine. Or how about the 2000 election, when Al Gore refused to concede for **35 days**, when he lost the statewide recount, demanded recounts only in heavily Democratic counties, and then tried to get away with a phony statewide recount that was only going to recount the undervotes (since Gore believed the undervotes would tilt heavily for him)? Huh? You guys screamed bloody murder that Gore was entirely justified in refusing to concede and in demanding selective recounts.

Or how about Hillary's emphatic comment just a few months ago that Biden should not concede under any circumstances if he thought there was any indication of voter fraud? Hey? You people are incredible hypocrites.

You have a problem with honesty, don't you? We both know that you have misleadingly cherry-picked your comparison countries. I think you and I have had this discussion before. As I have pointed out several times, Sweden's COVID-19 numbers are better than those of several other European nations and worse than those of other nations. Sweden falls somewhere toward the middle when it comes to COVID-19 numbers, yet Sweden has done this without suffering nearly as much economic damage as those other nations because Sweden had the good sense not to impose a lockdown but to keep businesses and most schools open.

And I notice you ignored the point that Sweden's daily COVID-19 deaths have dropped dramatically since August, and that if you adjust for population size, Sweden has had over 80% fewer daily deaths than America has had.

Or, let's compare Sweden's nearly flatline number of daily deaths to France's. Over the last 30 days, France has averaged nearly 500 daily deaths, compared to Sweden's average of 4 daily deaths. If we adjust Sweden's numbers for France's population size (66 million), 4 daily deaths equals 26 daily deaths. This means that Sweden's number of daily deaths, adjusted for population size, is over 6 times lower than France's number of daily deaths.

Facts are stubborn things.

 :D :D :D

Donald Trump's lawyers dropped their bogus cases. There is no fraud. It's a scam. Even Republicans are telling this lunatic to concede. You have no facts, only disinformation. Sweden is a disaster with coronavirus just like the United States. 

]More Republicans call on Trump to concede as election fraud cases collapse
https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/more-republicans-call-on-trump-to-concede-as-election-fraud-cases-collapse/

Sweden has admitted its coronavirus immunity predictions were wrong as cases soar across the country
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-herd-immunity-second-wave-coronavirus-cases-hospitalisations-surge-2020-11


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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2458 on: November 16, 2020, 01:13:46 AM »


Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2459 on: November 16, 2020, 01:18:52 AM »
Another fact update on COVID-19: Over the last three days, the death rate has dropped once again. Three days ago, the death rate was 2.3%--243K deaths/10.6 million cases. As of this morning, it is 2.26%--244K deaths/10.8 million cases. You can Google the numbers and do the simple math yourself. 244,000 deaths out of 10.8 million cases equals a case death rate of 2.26%, which means the average survival rate is 97.74%.

And when you break down the numbers by age group, you see that for about 60% of the U.S. population, COVID-19 poses either a lower risk than the flu or about the same risk as the flu. If you doubt this, go to the CDC or Johns Hopkins site and divide the number of cases by the number of deaths for the age groups that those sites use. And/or go to state websites and do the same calculation for the age groups they use. Different sites use different age groups. You will see that for ages 0-19, the death rate is far below the flu's death rate; that for ages 20-49, the death rate is nearly the same as that of the flu (0.11% to 0.29%, almost identical to the flu's death rate range); that for ages 50-64, the death rate is right around 1.97%, which equals a survival rate of 98.03%. Only with ages 65 and up does the death rate enter genuinely dangerous territory: it is around 14%, which still equals a survival rate of 86%, far, far better than the odds of beating most forms of cancer.

But liberals continue to scare people by focusing on the number of cases without telling people that the death rate continues to drop steadily. Nor do liberals bother to tell people that for weeks during the lockdowns, the death rate was over 5% and did not start to noticeably drop until states began to reopen. If more people had this crucial information, they would immediately begin to question the lockdown approach.

More bogus disinformation. You are dragging the credibility of this forum down. Deaths and infections are soaring.

U.S. COVID-19 cases cross 11 million as pandemic intensifies
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-usa-records/us-covid-19-cases-cross-11-million-as-pandemic-intensifies-idUSFWN2I006W

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2460 on: November 16, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »
Very few people who survive COVID-19 suffer "extensive damage." What source is telling you that "many" people who survive the virus--which, BTW, is about 97% of those who catch it--subsequently suffer "extensive damage"? Where are you getting that? The stats I've seen show that only a very small percentage of people experience any serious health issues after they catch and survive COVID-19.

I know 22 people who caught COVID-19, including two people in my immediate and extended family, and not one of them has experienced any unusual health issues after they caught it. In fact, ALL of them either had no symptoms or mild symptoms.

So, again, what is your source for claiming that "many" survivors suffer "extensive damage"?

Finally, as of this morning, the COVID-19 death rate has dropped again. It is now down to 2.23% (245K deaths/11 million cases). If your liberal brain can't process this fact, do the math yourself. 245K deaths out of 11 million cases equals a case death rate of 2.23% and a survival rate of 97.77%. Why do you people insist on panicking over a virus that has an average survival rate of 97.77%?

 :D :D :D

You have no idea what people are suffering long term from with COVID_19. You are a disinformation artist peddling lies. Why? Whats your goal of downplaying the virus?

From ‘brain fog’ to heart damage, COVID-19’s lingering problems alarm scientists
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2460 on: November 16, 2020, 01:24:40 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2461 on: November 16, 2020, 02:25:34 AM »
Colin,

If the United States had competent leadership, this virus wouldn't have gotten out of control and thousands of lives would have been saved. Not to mention, our lives would have been more normal than what we have been facing the last 8 months.

Donald Trump knew from the beginning that COVID-19 was a deadly airborne virus. He admitted to Bob Woodward on tape telling him "he wanted to always downplay the virus". That lead to tens of thousands of deaths because of him.

Right from the get go, Donald Trump lied about COVID-19 calling it a "hoax" and sought to politicize a non political virus. Instead of fighting to save Americans, he wanted to attack Democrats and downplay the virus because he thought it would help him win an election but he failed miserably.   

The right wing media from day one downplayed the virus and started putting out disinformation that posters here parrot. They also caused massive death in this country. People listened to their lies and blew the virus off as a joke and spread the virus around their communities.

We had no national plan that would have helped to combat the virus. Some states had restrictions and red states had none so sick people crossing state lines continued to spread COVID. Most states saw significant improvement and then Donald Trump started demanding states to open and told his deranged cult to force states to open. That's when we lost the war on COVID.

Donald Trump wants herd immunity and doesn't care how many people get sick or die. He held many hate rallies that exploded the spreading of the virus. Over 1 million new cases were recorded this week. Hospitals are at full capacity so new sick patients that require hospitalization won't be able to be admitted. Over 1200 deaths are being recorded each day. Right wingers refuse to lock down or do anything to stop the spread. They are engaging in mass murder.

Immediate lockdowns tomorrow would help stop the spread of the virus and so would wearing masks where eventually we would see progress being made.

There are only two options. Do nothing want watch the economy go under and witness massive death and infection or lockdown and get this virus under control.                 

Rick, as I see it the problems the US had were the following.

The virus essentially became politicised because you were facing a Presidential election. Trump, for all his failings, had a good chance of re-election and no obvious challenger had emerged by the new year. Trump saw the "economy" as a winner, using the DJI as the simplistic indicator for Joe Public, to prove his point. Everything in his thinking was to keep the Stock market buoyant.

The virus hit early in the new year, I believe in Washington State at first. Information at that time was sketchy, but it was obvious that Wuhan was having a serious health crisis. Unfortunately the US decided to develop their own testing kit. It was not effective early and so that caused serious issues. New York also had outbreaks, and we know the problems that caused.

Now we know that a significant number of people are asymptomatic spreaders. Also people can spread the virus for days presymtomatically. So you can see, community spread was out of control, with no real way of testing. The only way of diagnosis was via severe symptoms. The only experience with severe corona virus disease previously was with SARS, years before. That’s what many used to judge what to do but the characteristics of this virus are different.

Trump's focus was the "economy" ie. his re election. Every action taken was with that filter in place. He was the "cheerleader", not for the country, but for the DJI, his winning in November. Eventually he imposed the limited travel bans but it was too late, the virus was already spreading inside the country.

In my city we have not had a community spread case since April 14. Two days ago we had 4, today 17. We are fortunate enough to have the numbers of contact tracers to track those possibly in contact with them down. Our hospital system can cope at present. I fear for the toll on health workers and the health system in the US given the rapid growth in numbers recently.

Offline Rick Plant

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2462 on: November 16, 2020, 03:31:09 AM »
What?! Moderators should remove your posts for sheer stupidity. We do not "currently have the highest" death rate since the pandemic started. That is demonstrably false, as anyone can confirm by checking the CDC site, the Johns Hopkins site, or the WHO site. During the lockdowns, the death rate got as high as 5.67%. But, it began to drop dramatically after states began to reopen, and it is now at  2.3% (243K deaths/10.6 million cases). That means the average survival rate is up to 97.7%. Can you do basic math?

Part of the problem is that you guys keep focusing on case numbers and ignore the dramatic drop in the death rate. You just don't seem to care that the death rate has dropped to 2.3%, which means that the average survival rate is 97.7%

I've already answered this liberal talking point, and you keep ignoring the answer and just keep on citing liberal rags like the New York Times. New Zealand is an ISLAND and has a very low population density. How about we talk about Taiwan, which has a much higher population density--24 million people in 14K square miles vs. New Zealand's 4.8 million people in 103K square miles? Taiwan refused to impose a lockdown and kept its businesses and schools open--and Taiwan has the lowest infection and death rates in the world.

HOGWASH! You are just too ignorant to do basic math. You keep focusing on case numbers. Look at the death rate, since that is the key stat. I dare you to divide the number of cases by the number of deaths. If you do so, if you know how, you will see that the death rate is now down to 2.3%. Then, go back to the middle of the lockdowns and do the same calculation, and you will see that the death rate was consistently well over 5% for weeks during the lockdowns.

The fact is, New Zealand used strict lockdowns to stamp out the virus. It doesn't matter what their population is. What matters is, they didn't allow coronavirus to overwhelm their country and it proves that lockdowns work which ignorant right wingers refuse to admit. Sweden refused to do anything and now they are paying the price.   

Griffith shows his severe ignorance unable to comprehend simple math and numbers written on a page.

Coronavirus cases and deaths are not "dropping", they are increasing each day.

Let's see if Griffith can comprehend simple numbers and math.

Saturday Coronavirus cases and deaths

Cases: 138,249  Deaths: 1,259

Sunday Coronavirus cases and deaths

Cases: 145,670  Deaths: 1,350   

Cases:
145,670
138,249


An increase of 7,241 cases in just one day. How are these cases "dropping"? They are increasing.

Deaths:
1,350
1,259


An increase of 91 deaths in one day with another consecutive day of +1000 deaths. Deaths are not "dropping", they are increasing.

Simple math that Griffith doesn't understand as cases are near 150,000 each day along with +1000 deaths. It's not "dropping" it's getting worse.

Rural communities where Trumpturd moron voters live are being overwhelmed by COVID deaths. So tell me Griffith, where are the number of deaths "dropping" and why are you still posting COVID disinformation?   

Our neighbors, our family members': Small-town hospitals overwhelmed by COVID-19 deaths
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/11/15/hospitals-coronavirus-covid-19-cases-deaths/6267612002/

Offline Gerry Down

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Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2463 on: November 16, 2020, 03:43:18 AM »
The fact is, New Zealand used strict lockdowns to stamp out the virus.

No one flies into New Zealand because its so out of the way. Half the world flies into the U.S.

That's why the U.S. has suffered so much.

Do you really think people listen to Trump, Biden etc on this issue. People do what they want.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Trump supporters and conspiracy theory - Part 2
« Reply #2463 on: November 16, 2020, 03:43:18 AM »