Victoria Adams’ view from the fourth floor window

[Charles Collins]

Charles,

Good work!

FWIW, I seriously think JFK might have been waving back to pretty Patricia Ann Donaldson-Lawrence, who was standing in the curving line in the street and is visible not only in Wiegman, but in Towner and Hughes (iirc) as well, not far from Stetson Man (who, being tall and dressed in white, serves as a good visual landmark in these clips).

--  MWT 

Thanks!

So you think that JFK was flirting with the pretty gals in Texas while sitting right next to his wife???

Hmmm, you’re probably right! 

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks!

So you think that JFK was flirting with the pretty gals in Texas while sitting right next to his wife???

Hmmm, you’re probably right!

Charles,

I just now watched the Towner clip (again) and reread what you'd written ... and I was wrong.

If JFK waved to pretty Patricia Ann, it would have been when he waved the lingering wave a few seconds earlier, i.e., at about 0:06 in this clip:

So maybe he was waving to pretty Peggy Joyce Hawkins (and her four year-old son) on the "island," instead.

LOL

--  MWT 

Edit:  Or (he's waving at Patricia Ann in the background, near Strtson Man) at about 0:14 in this slo-mo version:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x35n2ha

[Charles Collins]

Charles,

I just now watched the Towner clip (again) and reread what you'd written ... and I was wrong.

If JFK waved to pretty Patricia Ann, it would have been when he waved the lingering wave a few seconds earlier, i.e., at about 0:06 in this clip:

So maybe he was waving to pretty Peggy Joyce Hawkins (and her four year-old son) on the "island," instead.

LOL

--  MWT 

Edit:  Or (he's waving at Patricia Ann in the background, near Strtson Man) at about 0:14 in this slo-mo version:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x35n2ha

To me it appears that JFK was doing a repetitive almost rhythmic motion in which he was raising and lowering his right arm to wave and turning his head to acknowledge the crowd. And this appears to be interrupted for a little bit immediately following the end of Towner’s film/beginning of Zapruder film. In other words if one watches his actions during the Towner film and can discern the rhythm I just described, one would expect a continuation of that type of rhythm during the first part of the Zapruder film. But that doesn’t happen. It is a considerable amount of time before he starts another wave. And during that interval we can see some quizzical looking expressions on the occupants of the limo as they appear to be looking all around and wondering what that loud noise was. See photo by Croft for the expressions, and the motions in that portion of Zapruder film. By the time of the Garrison fiasco, Phil Willis had changed his claim about the first causing him to take his fifth photo to it causing him to take one of his photos. Willis’ fourth photo was taken (you guessed it) very shortly after z-133. And it is out of focus and motion blurred as one would expect if it had been inadvertently taken before Willis was completely ready and had everything set. JFK appears to be brushing his hair back in Willis 4. Who was it that said the first shot happened right after JFK did that?

[Thomas Graves]

To me it appears that JFK was doing a repetitive almost rhythmic motion in which he was raising and lowering his right arm to wave and turning his head to acknowledge the crowd. And this appears to be interrupted for a little bit immediately following the end of Towner’s film/beginning of Zapruder film. In other words if one watches his actions during the Towner film and can discern the rhythm I just described, one would expect a continuation of that type of rhythm during the first part of the Zapruder film. But that doesn’t happen. It is a considerable amount of time before he starts another wave. And during that interval we can see some quizzical looking expressions on the occupants of the limo as they appear to be looking all around and wondering what that loud noise was. See photo by Croft for the expressions, and the motions in that portion of Zapruder film. By the time of the Garrison fiasco, Phil Willis had changed his claim about the first causing him to take his fifth photo to it causing him to take one of his photos. Willis’ fourth photo was taken (you guessed it) very shortly after z-133. And it is out of focus and motion blurred as one would expect if it had been inadvertently taken before Willis was completely ready and had everything set. JFK appears to be brushing his hair back in Willis 4. Who was it that said the first shot happened right after JFK did that?

I still go with Max Holland when he says the first shot occured about 1.4 seconds before Z133.

If the first shot was the one that injured James Tague, it had to lose its copper jacket somewhere along the way, probably when it glanced off the traffic light mast arm.

Hinkley (sp?) bent over and looked at something on the ground. His attention could have been drawn to the falling debris from that impact.

--  MWT 

[Charles Collins]

I still go with Max Holland when he says the first shot occured about 1.4 seconds before Z133.

If the first shot was the one that injured James Tague, it had to lose its copper jacket somewhere along the way, probably when it glanced off the traffic light mast arm.

Hinkley (sp?) bent over and looked at something on the ground. His attemtention could have been drawn to the falling debris from that impact.

--  MWT 

I think Hickey was probably looking at tires for evidence of a blowout after hearing the loud bang. I have a theory that LHO was positioning the rifle and intended to wait to fire until just after JFK emerged from the other side of the tree (from the sniper's nest view). But, while moving into position, his left arm hit the electrical conduit between his position and the window frame and this unexpected collision caused him to inadvertently fire the rifle before he could fully position and aim it. The bullet could have hit the corner of the concrete pad where DPD Foster found a mark. There is also a furrow in the turf nearby. The copper jacket could have separated from the lead due to that impact and the jacket caused the furrow. Some or all of the remaining lead bullet could have continued and struck the curb near Tague's position. Just a theory, but I don't know of any conclusive evidence that says it is impossible.

[Thomas Graves]

I think Hickey was probably looking at tires for evidence of a blowout after hearing the loud bang. I have a theory that LHO was positioning the rifle and intended to wait to fire until just after JFK emerged from the other side of the tree (from the sniper's nest view). But, while moving into position, his left arm hit the electrical conduit between his position and the window frame and this unexpected collision caused him to inadvertently fire the rifle before he could fully position and aim it. The bullet could have hit the corner of the concrete pad where DPD Foster found a mark. There is also a furrow in the turf nearby. The copper jacket could have separated from the lead due to that impact and the jacket caused the furrow. Some or all of the remaining lead bullet could have continued and struck the curb near Tague's position. Just a theory, but I don't know of any conclusive evidence that says it is impossible.

Charles,

I wonder where the mast arm is (from the sniper's perspective) in your Vicki Adams-based simulation?

--  MWT

[Charles Collins]

Charles,

I wonder where the mast arm is (from the sniper's perspective) in your Vicki Adams-based simulation?

--  MWT

If I remember correctly it would be behind the limo at that point. But I will double check it first chance.

[Charles Collins]

"quizzical looking expressions" ... "photo by Croft for the expressions"

That has to be one of the most ridiculous claim in recent years.

Jim Towner slide

Robert Croft photo

There's nothing usual in the Croft photograph whatsoever. Compare to Towner.

Jackie has practically the same expression. The President seems in no distress. The Connallys are looking off to their sides as much in both pictures.

Things get unusual immediately after the Croft photo, when both Connallys effect rapid rightward head turns during the Z160s, along with Mrs. Kennedy a half-second-or-so later. All three said they turned their heads rightward in response to their hearing the first shot.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous claim in recent years.

I have made it before and you had a similar response. Your opinion is your opinion and mine is mine. Neither is going to change so let’s move on.