RFK and Jackie Secretly Told Soviets JFK Was Killed by "Right-Wing Conspiracy"

[Michael T. Griffith]

Anything other than 57 year old garbage discussed thousands upon thousands of times throughout the years? Interesting that the majority of historians, doctors, forensic pathologists, wound ballistics experts totally disagree with you.

Most of those folks are unaware of the evidence that has been developed in those fields by fellow experts over the last 20 years.

There is hard physical evidence of conspiracy, but if someone is determined not to believe in a conspiracy, they will float and cling to the most absurd explanations for that evidence to avoid admitting it, e.g., the holes in the back of Kennedy's shirt and coat, the nick in the tie knot, the slits in the front of the shirt, the faked 6.5 mm fragment on the skull x-rays, the Harper Fragment, the clear indications of more than three shots in the Zapruder film.

Is that one more conspiracy?  Btw, I have never ruled out a conspiracy. What I’ve maintained throughout the decades is simple: Oswald, to a 100% certainty fired 3 and only 3 shots hitting JFK twice from above and behind. End of shooting. Was another faction pulling his strings? 57 years later, I don’t know. You don’t know. I can’t prove it nor can you. The readers on this forum whether pro or con re: shooting are well read. Repeating theories discussed ad nauseam for 50+ does nothing for your case.

I notice you declined to answer my question about why Bobby and Jackie believed a right-wing conspiracy had killed JFK. To judge from your verbiage, one gets the impression that you are saying they were merely guessing without any reasonable foundation.

One of the reasons I created this thread is that most WC apologists posture as though anyone who rejects the WC's version of events can't think properly, lacks intelligence, is prone to believe wild theories, etc., etc. That's odd posturing coming from people who are part of a minority of only about 35% of the American people. You act like you are defending the mainstream view and that conspiracy theorists are the fringe element, when in fact you guys are in the distinct minority and are rejecting most of the conclusions of the last U.S. Government investigation into the assassination.

[Paul May]

BTW, was the “message” Walton carried to Russia written or verbal?

[Paul May]

Most of those folks are unaware of the evidence that has been developed in those fields by fellow experts over the last 20 years.

There is hard physical evidence of conspiracy, but if someone is determined not to believe in a conspiracy, they will float and cling to the most absurd explanations for that evidence to avoid admitting it, e.g., the holes in the back of Kennedy's shirt and coat, the nick in the tie knot, the slits in the front of the shirt, the faked 6.5 mm fragment on the skull x-rays, the Harper Fragment, the clear indications of more than three shots in the Zapruder film.

I notice you declined to answer my question about why Bobby and Jackie believed a right-wing conspiracy had killed JFK. To judge from your verbiage, one gets the impression that you are saying they were merely guessing without any reasonable foundation.

One of the reasons I created this thread is that most WC apologists posture as though anyone who rejects the WC's version of events can't think properly, lacks intelligence, is prone to believe wild theories, etc., etc. That's odd posturing coming from people who are part of a minority of only about 35% of the American people. You act like you are defending the mainstream view and that conspiracy theorists are the fringe element, when in fact you guys are in the distinct minority and are rejecting most of the conclusions of the last U.S. Government investigation into the assassination.

The mainstream view as you call is written by historians not by conspiracy advocates. Have you ever given reasonable thought to why CT’s cannot come together with a cogent and logical theory? Simple. CT’s, yourself included all interpret the actual evidence differently leading to different conclusions. It’s just not that difficult.

[Michael T. Griffith]

BTW, was the “message” Walton carried to Russia written or verbal?

It appears to have been verbal. However, Bolshakov wrote a memorandum of record of his conversation with Walton after he spoke with him that day, 12/9/63, and Fursenko and Naftali interviewed Bolshakov in January 1989 to confirm the memo's contents (One Hell of a Gamble, p. 476 notes 20, 22).

Douglass omitted some juicy additional information. Walton said, "Dallas was the ideal location for such a crime. . . . Perhaps there was only one assassin, but he did not act alone," and "The Kennedy clan considered the selection of Johnson a dreadful mistake" (pp. 406-407).

I should add that Walton would not have been one to twist Bobby and Jackie's words. Walton was a close, longtime friend of the family. During the 1960 election, Walton worked full time for JFK and Bobby. JFK and Jackie watched the 1960 election returns with only one person: Walton. JFK stayed in Walton's home in DC during the final transition weeks until he moved into the White House. Walton frequently spent long hours with the Kennedys in the White House. So it is no surprise that Bobby and Jackie chose him to convey their views on the assassination to the Soviet leadership. 

The mainstream view as you call is written by historians not by conspiracy advocates. Have you ever given reasonable thought to why CT’s cannot come together with a cogent and logical theory? Simple. CT’s, yourself included all interpret the actual evidence differently leading to different conclusions. It’s just not that difficult.

The "mainstream" view of the American people is that JFK was killed by a conspiracy. That was also the conclusion of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, the last government body to formally investigate the case. And there are plenty of historians who reject the lone-gunman theory.

Have you ever given reasonable thought to why CT’s cannot come together with a cogent and logical theory? Simple. CT’s, yourself included all interpret the actual evidence differently leading to different conclusions. It’s just not that difficult.

That's a hoot. Lone-gunman theorists are all over the map among themselves about the Tague wounding, the autopsy evidence, when Kennedy was first hit, the cause of Kennedy's backward headsnap, the 6.5 mm fragment, the additional fragment that McDonnell identified on the rear of the skull in the autopsy x-rays, etc., etc. etc. 

There is wide agreement among conspiracy theorists about the basic outline of the assassination plot. The fact that there is robust debate about some aspects of the plot is a sign of vitality, analysis, and ongoing research.

[Paul May]

It appears to have been verbal. However, Bolshakov wrote a memorandum of record of his conversation with Walton after he spoke with him that day, 12/9/63, and Fursenko and Naftali interviewed Bolshakov in January 1989 to confirm the memo's contents (One Hell of a Gamble, p. 476 notes 20, 22).

Douglass omitted some juicy additional information. Walton said, "Dallas was the ideal location for such a crime. . . . Perhaps there was only one assassin, but he did not act alone," and "The Kennedy clan considered the selection of Johnson a dreadful mistake" (pp. 406-407).

I should add that Walton would not have been one to twist Bobby and Jackie's words. Walton was a close, longtime friend of the family. During the 1960 election, Walton worked full time for JFK and Bobby. JFK and Jackie watched the 1960 election returns with only one person: Walton. JFK stayed in Walton's home in DC during the final transition weeks until he moved into the White House. Walton frequently spent long hours with the Kennedys in the White House. So it is no surprise that Bobby and Jackie chose him to convey their views on the assassination to the Soviet leadership. 

The "mainstream" view of the American people is that JFK was killed by a conspiracy. That was also the conclusion of the House Select Committee on Assassinations, the last government body to formally investigate the case. And there are plenty of historians who reject the lone-gunman theory.

That's a hoot. Lone-gunman theorists are all over the map among themselves about the Tague wounding, the autopsy evidence, when Kennedy was first hit, the cause of Kennedy's backward headsnap, the 6.5 mm fragment, the additional fragment that McDonnell identified on the rear of the skull in the autopsy x-rays, etc., etc. etc. 

There is wide agreement among conspiracy theorists about the basic outline of the assassination plot. The fact that there is robust debate about some aspects of the plot is a sign of vitality, analysis, and ongoing research.

A Trump response. Avoid the question and redirect. LN’s, as a group agree with the findings of the WC that Oswald was the shooter. How many LN’s might consider a conspiracy was possible, I have no idea. Robust debate? You’re being kind. Put 50 CT’s in a room and you’ll get 50 different theories many based on the hundreds Of books written each promising the correct solution. The mainstream view of the American people matters not. You surely know this yet you keep repeating it as if that makes it fact. You’re guilty of doing the very thing politicians and conspiracy types routinely do. Repeat something often enough and you hope people believe it. 330 million Americans. 197 million over 21. How many of those 197 million can name even 5 people involved in the assassination or investigations? Ask one of these 197 million people what a carcano is they’ll likely guess an Italian sports car. My point is there is no ongoing research. Any forum, blog, no different than this one. 30-40-50 year old theories and the CT’s go at each other like sharks. NARA has released 99% of all JFK related docs. There no place for CT’s to go.

[Thomas Graves]

In 1997, thanks to the opening of Soviet archives, we learned that just a few weeks after the assassination, RFK and Jackie Kennedy secretly told Soviet leaders they believed that President Kennedy had been “felled by domestic opponents” through “a large political conspiracy,” “a right-wing conspiracy.”

Canadian historian Timothy Naftali and Russian scholar Aleksandr Fursenko discovered Bobby and Jackie Kennedy’s message in top-secret Soviet intelligence archives  and discussed it in their 1997 book One Hell of a Gamble: The Secret History of the Cuban Missile Crisis (pp. 405-407). Bobby and Jackie sent the message through a close family friend, William Walton. James Douglass discusses this historic message in his book JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters (Orbis edition, 2011):

Bobby and Jackie’s message is especially remarkable because it was sent at a time when the federal government and nearly all news reports were adamantly proclaiming that JFK’s death was nothing but the work of a Marxist nutjob who had acted totally alone, the deranged act of a disturbed loner who had once defected to the Soviet Union and who had defended Castro’s communist regime.

Dear Mike,

Funny ... that's what the world class humanitarian, Nikita Khrushchev, told columnist Drew Pearson at a party in Cairo six months after the assassination, i.e., that the "Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex" aka "The Deep State" aka "Southern Oilmen and The Minutemen" (or some-such thing) had killed JFK!

Must be true, then, huh?

--  MWT 

PS  ... And that's what Kremlin-loyal triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI's SHAMROCK) tried to lead J. Edgar Hoover to believe in 1966, by first getting him to believe that the Kremlin had actually undertaken a long-term investigation of the assassination right after it happened.  LOL!

PPS  What are your thoughts on Vladimir Putin, the Red Army Faction-supporting former chief of station of the "backwater" Dresden, East Germany, First Chief Directorate (today's SVR) base?

"Nice guy who's just trying to fend off the fascistic West's globalists"?

[Joe Mannix]

I think James Douglass provides the clearest picture of the goals of the plotters and why two of their main goals were thwarted. LBJ and Hoover simply were not willing to follow the plotters' script and use the assassination as an excuse to invade Cuba and/or launch a preemptive strike on Russia. But, by killing JFK, the plotters were able to carry out other policies that they also viewed as crucial and that they knew JFK would have blocked: vastly escalating the war in Vietnam, ending back-channel talks with Castro, and overthrowing Sukarno in Indonesia.

It is interesting that you mention the Dal-Tex Building. Several Dealey Plaza witnesses thought shots came from the Dal-Tex Building, and a bullet fired from that building could have missed Kennedy by a few inches and struck the curb near Tague. In 1977, a rusted bullet cartridge was found on the roof of the Dal-Tex Building.

Agreed on Douglass, LBJ/JEH saw through the too-obvious clues quickly. Katzenbach documented same in a memo to Moyers:

"Unfortunately, the facts on Oswald seem about too pat, too obvious (Marxist, Cuba, Russian wife, etc.)," he wrote. "The Dallas police have put out statements on the Communist conspiracy theory, and it was they who were in charge when he was shot and thus silenced."

[Thomas Graves]

In 1997, thanks to the opening of Soviet archives, we learned that just a few weeks after the assassination, RFK and Jackie Kennedy secretly told Soviet leaders they believed that President Kennedy had been “felled by domestic opponents” through “a large political conspiracy,” “a right-wing conspiracy.”

Canadian historian Timothy Naftali and Russian scholar Aleksandr Fursenko discovered Bobby and Jackie Kennedy’s message in top-secret Soviet intelligence archives  and discussed it in their 1997 book One Hell of a Gamble: The Secret History of the Cuban Missile Crisis (pp. 405-407). Bobby and Jackie sent the message through a close family friend, William Walton. James Douglass discusses this historic message in his book JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters (Orbis edition, 2011):

Bobby and Jackie’s message is especially remarkable because it was sent at a time when the federal government and nearly all news reports were adamantly proclaiming that JFK’s death was nothing but the work of a Marxist nutjob who had acted totally alone, the deranged act of a disturbed loner who had once defected to the Soviet Union and who had defended Castro’s communist regime.

Dear Mike,

Funny ... that's what the world class humanitarian, Nikita Khrushchev, told columnist Drew Pearson at a party in Cairo six months after the assassination, i.e., that the "Military Industrial Intelligence Community Complex" aka "The Deep State" aka "Southern Oilmen and The Minutemen" (or some-such thing) had killed JFK!

Must be true, then, huh?

That's what Kremlin-loyal triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI's SHAMROCK) tried to lead J. Edgar Hoover to believe in 1966, by getting him to believe that the Kremlin had actually undertaken a long-term investigation of the assassination, right after it happened.  LOL!

Question: What are your thoughts on Vladimir Putin, the Red Army Faction-supporting former chief of station of the "backwater" Dresden, East Germany, First Chief Directorate (today's SVR) base?

"Nice guy who's just trying to fend off the fascistic West's globalists"?

--  MWT 

...

Crickets, doing what they do collectively in the night ...

--  MWT