Unsung Heroes

[Joe Elliott]

Unsung Heroes

There is a list of heroes in the case. Most of them have been known for years.

Officer Tippit. Officer McDonald. Johnny Brewer, Julia Postal. Names of people who at a critical junction, stepped up and did something that resulted in the capture of the assassin of the President with 75 minutes.

But I think there is probably another. Officer E.G. Sabastian reported immediately over the radio that NBC News reported that a police officer had been shot. Johnny Brewer reported hearing two weeks later that he heard an early report of the shooting of a police officer. I think there was such a broadcast. Which means we have another hero. An unknown hero.

Some station news director at the local NBC News station, at WFAA, broadcasting on the NBC station 820 AM got a report that the police radio said that a police officer was murdered in the Oak Cliff area. He made the call, we’re not going to go with another message about what a terrible event this is, we’re not going with another call about what a priest said, we’re not going with another call about we still haven’t heard an official announcement. Instead, he made the call, broadcast, immediately, that a police officer was shot in the Oak Cliff area.

Maybe this didn’t make a difference. Maybe Johnny Brewer was already alerted by the report of the President being shot just 3 miles away just 66 minutes earlier. But who knows, maybe it made the difference. In any case, while all other program directors got locked up with information overload, it appears that one of them didn’t and made the correct call. And scooped the competition. And helped get Oswald captured. To our newest unknown hero, I salute you.

[Martin Weidmann]

Unsung Heroes

There is a list of heroes in the case. Most of them have been known for years.

Officer Tippit. Officer McDonald. Johnny Brewer, Julia Postal. Names of people who at a critical junction, stepped up and did something that resulted in the capture of the assassin of the President with 75 minutes.

But I think there is probably another. Officer E.G. Sabastian reported immediately over the radio that NBC News reported that a police officer had been shot. Johnny Brewer reported hearing two weeks later that he heard an early report of the shooting of a police officer. I think there was such a broadcast. Which means we have another hero. An unknown hero.

Some station news director at the local NBC News station, at WFAA, broadcasting on the NBC station 820 AM got a report that the police radio said that a police officer was murdered in the Oak Cliff area. He made the call, we’re not going to go with another message about what a terrible event this is, we’re not going with another call about what a priest said, we’re not going with another call about we still haven’t heard an official announcement. Instead, he made the call, broadcast, immediately, that a police officer was shot in the Oak Cliff area.

Maybe this didn’t make a difference. Maybe Johnny Brewer was already alerted by the report of the President being shot just 3 miles away just 66 minutes earlier. But who knows, maybe it made the difference. In any case, while all other program directors got locked up with information overload, it appears that one of them didn’t and made the correct call. And scooped the competition. And helped get Oswald captured. To our newest unknown hero, I salute you.

Amazing... You go from (1) "I think there was such a broadcast." to (2) speculating about what "some station news director at the local NBC News station, at WFAA" possibly heard and did, to (3) concluding it did actually happen and declaring a new hero.... all in one post and all without a shred of evidence! WOW

Too bad there is no record whatsoever of any radio broadcast that Brewer could have heard at the time he said he heard it. Had there been one it would have surfaced by now.... but it didn't!

[Joffrey van de Wiel]

The only REAL hero was Secret Service Agent Clinton Hill, who got in the line of fire.

[Joe Elliott]

Amazing... You go from (1) "I think there was such a broadcast." to (3) speculating about what "some station news director at the local NBC News station, at WFAA" possibly heard and did, to concluding it did actually happen and declaring a new hero.... all in one post and all without a shred of evidence! WOW

Too bad there is no record whatsoever of any radio broadcast that Brewer could have heard at the time he said he heard it. Had there been one it would have surfaced by now.... but it didn't!

Amazing I changed my mind with new information? Not at all. I do that all the time. It’s only certain people who are not affected by the facts, who are not affected by new information, but just keep believing in what they believe. But I’m not one of them. Before learning of what Officer E. G. Sabastian was saying at 1:28 pm, yes, I thought there might or might not have been such a broadcast. But now I think there definitely was and that someone must have decided to put this on the air.

Would such a tape have surfaced by now? No, it wouldn’t. Not if it had been erased, as usually happens to recordings of radio broadcasts. Which generally get recorded over by a future broadcast. It’s gone. Other stations saved at least some of their broadcast but lost part of it.

By your logic, the local NBC News station on 820 AM didn’t make any broadcast that day. Because if it did, a recording of it would have surfaced by now. It did make a broadcast that day and it almost certainly reported before 1:28 pm that a policeman had been shot. We know this because if it didn’t happen, Officer E. G. Sabastian would not have been talking about such an NBC news report at 1:28 pm.



Of the various recordings that have survived:

NBC’s New York TV broadcast didn’t start to record until 3 minutes and 53 seconds after the first news flash, so they started recording audio until 12:45 CST, and video by 12:51 CST.

NBC’s New York Radio starts recording, after 1:00 EST, it is naturally giving us east coast times. This would be after 12:00 noon CST. By 10:33 into this recording, the first bulletin came in, so it must have started recording by 12:35 am, roughly. So, the recording did not start recording a 12:00 noon but more like 12:25 pm or a little later.

A local pop music station LIF does have a pretty complete record from 11:30 am CST to 2:47 pm CST.

Another local pop music station KBOX’s recording didn’t start until they announced that it was now official, President Kennedy is dead.  Clearly this recording missed the first hour or more and we don’t have any recording before 1:40, or 1:30.

A local ABC News station records, 570 AM starts recording at 7:00 am CST, but it is clear that there are big gaps, because at 2:55:30 minutes, it announces the time as 11:54 and by 2:55:50, it makes the first announcement about the Dealey Plaza shooting. So, the ABC recording has big gaps in it, at least until 12:35 CST.


All in all, the recordings of the radio broadcasts were a hit or miss affair. Some recordings were saved, some were lost. It appears that some stations saved some tapes but lost others, because the recordings don’t start until an hour after the shooting at Dealey Plaza. It took awhile for people to start realizing that they need to save these tapes and some were lost, and not just at the local NBC radio station.


If a witness recalls a radio report occurring roughly around 1:28 pm, but first makes a statement about this two weeks later, he might be confused. But if a witness recalls a media report occurring roughly around 1:28 pm, and talks about it immediately, he can’t be confused. I can believe Johnny Brewer got confused. But Officer E. G. Sabastian? No way. There was a radio announcement of a policeman’s shooting before 1:30 pm by the local NBC News station.

Question 1:

What if we had a recording of Mr. Brewer’s voice at 1:28 pm saying that he just heard over the radio that a police officer was shot. Would there still be a debate over whether it was possible that he was mistaken on this question?

The only reason there has been a debate on this is because Mr. Brewer did not make an immediate statement on this but instead his first preserved statement came two weeks later. It is reasonable to question a 2-week-old memory. But not an immediate memory, of hearing an NBC broadcast that had not occurred yet.

Question 2:

Why isn’t a recording by Officer E. G. Sabastian considered proof that such an early radio announcement was made?

[Martin Weidmann]

Amazing I changed my mind with new information? Not at all. I do that all the time. It’s only certain people who are not affected by the facts, who are not affected by new information, but just keep believing in what they believe. But I’m not one of them. Before learning of what Officer E. G. Sabastian was saying at 1:28 pm, yes, I thought there might or might not have been such a broadcast. But now I think there definitely was and that someone must have decided to put this on the air.

Nothing wrong or amazing about changing your mind. What is amazing is that you rely on speculation.

First of all, you need to understand that the times given on the DPD recordings are likely not correct, as per J.C. Bowles, the man in charge of the DPD dispatchers;

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.


In addition to the times stamped on calls by telephone operators, the radio operators stamped the "time" as calls were dispatched, and the "time" that officers completed an assignment and returned to service. Radio operators were also furnished with 12-hour digital clocks to facilitate their time references when they were not using call sheets containing stamped time. These digital clocks were not synchronized with any time standard. Therefore, the time "actual" and time "broadcast" could easily be a minute or so apart.

Would such a tape have surfaced by now? No, it wouldn’t. Not if it had been erased, as usually happens to recordings of radio broadcasts. Which generally get recorded over by a future broadcast. It’s gone. Other stations saved at least some of their broadcast but lost part of it.

I agree with you that tapes used to record station output were indeed recycled, after a period of time, but I seriously doubt they would destroy the tape of the day Kennedy was murdered.

By your logic, the local NBC News station on 820 AM didn’t make any broadcast that day. Because if it did, a recording of it would have surfaced by now. It did make a broadcast that day and it almost certainly reported before 1:28 pm that a policeman had been shot. We know this because if it didn’t happen, Officer E. G. Sabastian would not have been talking about such an NBC news report at 1:28 pm.

The comment "NBC News is reporting DOA." doesn't have to mean that it was broadcast. It could just as easily have been a comment by a NBC News reporter that was overheard by Sabastian. You just suppose there must have been a broadcast.


Question 1:

What if we had a recording of Mr. Brewer’s voice at 1:28 pm saying that he just heard over the radio that a police officer was shot. Would there still be a debate over whether it was possible that he was mistaken on this question?

Moot question that requires speculation.

Question 2:

Why isn’t a recording by Officer E. G. Sabastian considered proof that such an early radio announcement was made?


Because it isn't. Just like Brewer saying he heard it on the radio isn't proof that there actually was a radio broadcast.

.

[Jerry Freeman]

 

The only REAL hero was Secret Service Agent Clinton Hill, who got in the line of fire.

                                                                               

[Jon Banks]

Unsung Heroes for the Lone Nut Narrative :

- Jack Ruby
- J Edgar Hoover
- Allen Dulles
- Gerald Ford
- Arlen Spector
- Dan Rather

[Joe Elliott]

I agree with you that tapes used to record station output were indeed recycled, after a period of time, but I seriously doubt they would destroy the tape of the day Kennedy was murdered.

I now agree with you. I was perplexed that the recordings would start in mid broadcast, like the old tape ran out and a new one put in. It is now clear to me that in general, the local radio stations were not recording anything when they heard about the assassination, and while concentrating on getting the news and broadcasting it, took up to an hour or more to setup and start recording the broadcast. I now believe, so far as I know, that no tape, once made, was lost. But it is also clear, that in many cases, no recording was made during that first hour.

The comment "NBC News is reporting DOA." doesn't have to mean that it was broadcast. It could just as easily have been a comment by a NBC News reporter that was overheard by Sabastian. You just suppose there must have been a broadcast.

I doubt a police officer would overhear and reporter talking and call dispatch to report that “NBC News is reporting DOA.” The fact that he was using the radio means, to me, that he wasn’t at police headquarters but was patrolling in his vehicle. Officer E. G. Sabastian isn’t going overhear a reporter at headquarters, walk past the dispatch office, go the garage, get in his squad car, get on his radio and report to dispatch that “NBC News is reporting DOA.”

“NBC News is reporting DOA” means hearing a media broadcast, either over TV or radio. And we know it wasn’t TV. And he wouldn’t have been watching TV. And likely based on the voice of an announcer who reported for NBC, or at least often reported for NBC, but sometimes ABC. Like an announcer for either WBAP or WFAA. It would not have been WBAP but it might have been WFAA.


By the way, was E. G. Sabastain assigned to chat up reporters and report back to dispatch what they were talking about?

No.

https://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes2.htm

1:25
75 (Ptm. E. G. Sabastian)      75 is at Forest and Central

which I interpret as Officer Sabastian is in his patrol car at the intersection of Forest Lane and North Central Expressway, several miles north of Dealey Plaza and police headquarters and not likely to encounter any reporters. And reports from “NBC News” has to be coming in over the radio.