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Author Topic: Probably Bogus Correlation between Timing of Shots and the Position Estimates  (Read 4594 times)

Offline Joe Elliott

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The Probably Bogus Correlation between the Timing of the Shots and the BBN Position Estimates

Or, how the BBN attempted one of the Labors of Hercules, on a limited time budget.

First, off, when I say “Bogus”, a am not implying any lying or misrepresentation on BBN Part. Indeed, it seems to be a curious fact that BBN never brought up the subject of this “Correlation” of the Data. Instead, it has been brought up by others.



Now, there are many reasons to doubt the 1978 HSCA BBN Acoustic Study, and a few of them are shown below:

•   The “Gun Fire” on the recording does not sound like gunfire, or any kind of a loud noise. [ Excuse: Recording system not designed to record gunfire. ]
•   Loud Crowd noise not heard on the recording, as expected of a motorcycle in the motorcade. [ Excuse: Recording system not designed to hear distant voices, although it does record distant voice transmissions from nearby radios using Channel 2. ]

Both of these points could have easily been dealt with by the acoustic experts in their gunfire tests of August 20, 1978 in Dealey Plaza, using the still existing Dictabelt recording system still in use by the Dallas Police Department, but they failed to do so.

•   There are not several minutes of sirens blaring, as expected of a motorcycle escorting the President to the hospital, but silence, followed by a gradual buildup of volume of sirens, and then their gradual fading away, over a period of about 36 seconds. As if the motorcycle was at the Trade Mart Center the whole time. [ Excuse: I haven’t heard a good excuse for this one ] It is this point that, perhaps, deserves the most emphasis.

•   No motorcycle seen within a circle with a certain circle with a radius of 9 feet, as predicted by the BBN Acoustic Experts in the Altgens photograph. Yes, he could be somewhere within that circle if it is given a radius of 18 feet, as Dr. Thomas did in his drawings. But the motorcycle needs to be within 9 feet, not 18 feet, to match the 1978 prediction made by the BBN Acoustic experts.

•   Hughes film, though it stops 1.5 seconds too soon, still makes it clear it was impossible for Officer McLain, or any other motorcycle, to reach the first circle, with a speed of 11 mph, by z175.

•   The lack of a systematic pattern with the measured location of the target locations found by the acoustic tests, which does not seem to steadily progress up Elm Street, but seems to show most, or perhaps all of the shots were aimed at the same spot.

•   It appears the so called “shots” occurred one minute too late, because of the phrase “Hold everything secure” was recorded at about the same time, evidently from a nearby motorcycle receiving transmissions from Channel 2.


But it does seem to have one strong point to be made for it. The Acoustic matches correspond to a systematic pattern, of a motorcycle moving steadily at 11 mph. This is subject this post will deal with.


In 1978, BBN Inc. was commissioned by the HSCA to do a study of the Dictabelt recording. It was known that a motorcycle had a stuck key. Somehow, the “Transmit” button got into the “On” position. When working properly, a patrolman presses a button, speaks into the microphone and gives his message. While holding this button, no one else can transmit a message. When done, he releases the button. From time to time, for some reason, the button gets stuck on the “On” position. This is known to have happened during a 5.5-minute period covering the time of the assassination.

The question is, was this motorcycle in Dealey Plaza? And if so, did it record the sounds of the gunfire? At first glance, it would appear no, because the recording has no sounds of gunshots, or bangs, or anything that remotely sounds like a gunshot. But the BBN was given this recording to check this out, just to be certain.


So, what did the Acoustic experts do? They closed down Dealey Plaza on August 20, 1978 to run some tests.

They set up an array of 36 microphones along Houston and Elm Street, at the locations where they guessed a motorcycle might be.

They set up 4 different “Target”, targets that would be safe for expert shooters to aim at and hit.

The idea, that each shot, depending on:

•   The location of the rifle.
•   The location of the ‘Target’.
•   The location of the microphone.

would have a unique waveform, a unique “fingerprint”. By comparing one of these waveforms with one of the 6 waveforms from the Dictabelt recording, they could, hopefully, find a close enough match.

If no matches were found, that would be yet another indicator that the motorcycle was not in Dealey Plaza, along with the lack of the sound of gunshots and crowd noise, etc.

But, if matches were found, and the matches were significantly good, that would be an indicator that the motorcycle was in Dealey Plaza after all.


There are Dictabelt Impulses to be found on separate parts of the 5.5-minute section of the Dictabelt of interest. The ones that BBN choose to focus on were 6 Impulses that occur within a 10.1 second section.

Quote
The BRSW team then compared, manually, each of 432 test shot wave forms with all the parts of the 5.5-minute record that could reasonably have included assassination gunshot sounds. They used a binary correlation metric, with a ±6-millisecond window, applied to strip chart recordings of the relevant waveforms. For each suspected assassination shot and each test shot, the strip chart recordings were aligned for a best match and a score was obtained by calculating the correlation coefficient. The correlation coefficient was defined as the number of impulses (large peaks) in the wave form of the suspected shot that came within 6 milliseconds of an impulse in the test shot, divided by the geometric mean of the numbers of impulses available in the suspected shot and in the test shot. This correlation procedure does not make use of all the information available (impulses that barely resemble each other affect the score as much as impulses that match each other well), but it permits relatively easy computation of similarity. Only candidate shots that gave a binary correlation greater than 0.6 were studied further. Fifteen pairs, involving only six sets of impulses on the channel I recording, survived this screening.

In the shooting tests of 1978, they recorded 69 test rifle shots and 9 test handgun shots. Due to time constraints, they selected 12 of these test shots to compare with the Dictabelt recording. This means that, with Test 12 shots, each shot recorded on 36 different microphones, they would need to print out 12 times 36 or 432 strip charts, which would take some time. And print out 6 more strip charts for the 6 “shots” recorded on the Dictabelt. So that is the first thing the BBN would need to.

Then, for a through systematic search, they would have to compare each of the 432 Test strip charts with each of the 6 Dictaphone strip charts. For a total of 2,592 comparisons of pairs of strip charts. And to do this with 4 people (there are 4 names listed on the final report) all within 15 days. I think I see a problem here.


For each comparison they would want to make, they would:

•   Manually align a strip chart from one of the “Test” recordings, with the strip chart from one of the 6 “Dictabelt” Impulses.
•   Count the number of large peaks in the Test waveform (within 6 milliseconds) and divide by the geometric mean of the numbers of impulses available in the “Test” shot and the “Dictabelt” shot.

I’m not certain what all this all means, but it sounds like making some judgements about what is the best alinement, counting the impulses in the “Test” shot and doing some calculations. It sounds like each comparison might take 5 minutes, with all the measurements and calculations.

During this work, care would have to be taken to keep the strip charts were organized so they don’t get out of order or put in the wrong box. This is tedious work. It would be prudent to have each comparison done twice, so nothing is missed.


The firing tests were done on August 20, 1978. On August 30, 1978, Dr. Barger called the HSCA to report that the preliminary matches had been done and 15 matches had been found. So, BBN had at most 10 days to make these comparisons.



How long to compare each of the 12 “Test” Shots with each of the 6 “Dictabelt” Impulses?

With 2,596 pairs of strip charts to compare and compute, and with 10 minutes per comparison, it comes out to 432 man-hours. Working seven days a week, 8 hours a day, with 4 men, there are only 320 man-hours available.

Working more than 8 hours is not advisable, since tired workers will tend to miss the occasional match. Frequent breaks would be well advised. It would also be advisable to do each comparison twice, by different people, at different times, so nothing, hopefully, is missed. Also, there is the initial time to print out the Test 432 strip charts, and more time at the end to organize and print out the final charts that were presented to the HSCA.


I would suggest that such a systematic search was not done, as it was impracticable, given the time restraints. So here is my scenario.


They selected one strip from one of the Dictabelt “shots”, I would suggest the one at 139.27, the third possible shot, later determined to be at z196 by BBN, and z205 by Dr. Thomas. They didn’t know which motorcycle might have had the stuck microphone, so they initially assumed it might have been one of the four right behind the President. After all, that group contained 4 of the 6 motorcycles that were in Dealey Plaza at the time of the first shot. They started the search somewhere forward, in the third group and worked their way back. It took a lot of searching until they found one of the somewhat “strong” correlation of 0.8 and considered it a good match. But a lot of time had been used by and they were running out of their 15 days and at this rate could clearly not check out all 6 “shots”. So, what to do.

They obvious thing to do is to search for the next “shot”, let’s say at 137.70 which occurred 1.57 second earlier. But where to search? Maybe their best bet is to assume a constant 11 mph speed of the motorcycle. Afterall, that was the estimated average speed of the limousine during the shooting. If the motorcycle maintained the same speed, that means the shot at 137.70 should be found somewhere Microphone 2 (5). And they found a match. And now they used the same procedure to check out all 6 “shots” and managed to complete their task in the 15 days.


There are signs that this was done.

1.   The never checked out the second cluster of impulse patterns found about a minute after the first. True, they didn’t cover 5 seconds, but did anyone know for certain how many seconds the shooting lasted? The fact they did not run any test on those impulse patterns in the second cluster is a sign that there was some serious time pressure.

2.   All the shots for a certain time, at 137.70, at 145.15, and at 145.61, where all on the same stretch of road. All except one. The one for 139.27, which ranged from 2(6) to 2(10) to 3(5). Exactly as to been expected as if they had to do a wide search for the first shot, they checked out, and then a more focused search for each of the other 5 possible shots.

3.   The biggest reason though, is that if these tests were done much quicker than I would guess (and it is a guess, I have no idea how many seconds or minutes it takes to compare two audio strip charts), or they had many times more than 4 people to work on these comparisons, and actually did a through systematic search of the entire data set of 432 strip charts, then this would have been a powerful argument for their validity. The odds of them coming in the proper order alone would by 1 in 5 Factorial or 1 in 120. And to match the same systematic pattern, of a constant 11 mph, would be astounding. And yet the BBN never hammered this point home.

And on this last point, why would the BBN be presenting these lukewarm estimates, that there is a 50-50 chance that these results indicate four shots, or even a 95% chance that these results indicate four shots, when the pattern of where the “motorcycle” was detected fit such a strong pattern. If there is one thing these Acoustic experts were not, they were not stupid. They would have thought of and used this argument and come up with much higher probability estimates. Unless they knew there was some flaw in it. That there was no through systematic search. And that the resulting data matched this systematic pattern possibly because those were the only places they searched for matches, because of time constraints.


At the very least, particularly with all the other problems the Acoustic Data has, judgment should be withheld until the members of the BBN who did this study can be consulted and confirm or refute the notion that there was enough time for a through systematic study of the entire 432 data set for all 6 “shots”.
 
Note: September 26, 2020: Upon looking into the BBN material more thoroughly, I have adjusted my numbers, but believe the argument still holds.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2020, 11:59:32 PM by Joe Elliott »

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Folks, don't waste your time on this utter garbage thread. Every single argument that Mr. Elliott makes was answered years ago. Many of his arguments are downright silly, but he did not realize this because he has not done enough research on the subject. He clearly has not read Dr. Donald Thomas's four chapters on the acoustical evidence in his book Hear No Evil. Every one of Elliott's bogus arguments are refuted by Dr. Thomas in those chapters.

Incredibly, Elliott fails to deal with the core elements of the acoustical evidence. Notice that he does not address the fact that the echo-pattern correlations occur in the correct topographic order, the fact that the N-waves and their succeeding muzzle blasts and echoes all occur in the correct order and intervals, the fact that the shooting timespan is correct, and the fact that windshield distortions among the identified gunshots occur when they should and do not occur when they should not. 

Elliott has gathered up claims from the NRC panel's report, from O'Dell's articles, and from other articles on pro-WC propaganda websites. Dr. Thomas's book deals at some length with O'Dell's claims, the NRC panel's claims, and Jim Bowles' claims. It also presents new research on the acoustical evidence.

When Mr. Elliott said a few days ago that he was preparing a response to the HSCA acoustical evidence, specifically the intricate correlations between the dictabelt impulse patterns and the test-firing impulse patterns, I urged him to read Dr. Thomas's chapters on the acoustical evidence in Hear No Evil. Clearly, he did not do that.

If you read Elliott's replies on the acoustical evidence in the "Poor Scholarship on Display" thread, in his "HSCA 1978 Acoustic Study by BBN – Figure 367," and in his "Question about Dr. Donald Thomas’s Dictabelt Offset Hypothesis" thread, you will see that he has a history of making egregious error after egregious error on the subject. 

Also, be advised that Dr. Josiah Thompson's soon-to-be-published and widely anticipated book Last Second in Dallas will contain a detailed defense and confirmation of the acoustical evidence. It will also present the results of a new acoustical test. The book will be published in the first week of December.

In the meantime, I invite readers to compare Elliott's inexcusably bad research with the research presented in the following articles and video:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Acoustics_Overview_and_History.html
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Acoustics_Overview_and_History_-_part_2.html
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Acoustics_Overview_and_History_-_part_2.html
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Essay_-_Sabato_Sonalysts_Sophistry.html
https://the-puzzle-palace.com/rebuttal.htm

Not a valid vimeo URL
« Last Edit: September 22, 2020, 03:50:35 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Joe Elliott

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Folks, don't waste your time on this utter garbage thread. Every single argument that Mr. Elliott makes was answered years ago. Many of his arguments are downright silly, but he did not realize this because he has not done enough research on the subject. He clearly has not read Dr. Donald Thomas's four chapters on the acoustical evidence in his book Hear No Evil. Every one of Elliott's bogus arguments are refuted by Dr. Thomas in those chapters.

Incredibly, Elliott fails to deal with the core elements of the acoustical evidence.

Notice that he does not address the fact that the echo-pattern correlations occur in the correct topographic order,

That was exactly what my original post was about. Explaining the correlation between time and space in their Exhibit F-367 chart. Let me put it to you more simply. They found the matches where they found them, because they only had time to look for them there. With only 15 days to run 2,592 comparisons, they had to limit their search for each shot to the small stretch of road they expected they might find it. That is my theory.

For the impulse at 137.70, they found matches around microphones 2( 5 ) and 2( 6 ), because they only had time to compare the 1963 137.70 impulse with those 1978 recordings.
For the impulse at 140.32, they found a match at microphones 2( 11 ), because they only had time to compare the 1963 140.32 impulse with those 1978 recordings.
For the impulse at 145.15, they found matches around microphones 3( 4 ) through 3( 8 ), because they only had time to compare the 1963 145.15 impulse with those 1978 recordings.
For the impulse at 146.61, they found matches around microphones 2( 5 ) and 2( 6 ), because they only had time to compare the 1963 146.61 impulse with those 1978 recordings.

But for the impulse at 139.27, they found matches for a large stretch of road, from microphone 2( 6 ) through 3( 5 ), as to be expected if this was the first shot, they looked at and had to do a wide search to get some matches and to get idea of how strong a match they might find. They wouldn’t necessarily stop with the match at 3( 5 ) because they might find stronger matches, for all they knew. By the time they checked through 2( 6 ), they knew that a correlation of 0.8 was about as good as they could expect to find and it was time to start checking out the other impulses.

My theory is supported by:

•   The BBN did not argue forcibly for this correlation between time and space, finding matches at locations where expected, if a motorcycle was going at a steady 11 mph. It would be natural for them not to, if they knew they had not done a through search, due to time constrains. They could not, in good faith, make this argument, if then knew that they had not looked for matches for 139.27 (for example) outside of the range of Microphones 2( 4 ) through 2( 8 ).

•   Mr. Griffith has failed to even produce a claim by the BBN they did a through comparison, for all 6 1963 impulses, with all 432 1978 impulses. It would also be good if they explained how the hell they did it, if they did. How much time does it take one make to make one comparison? How many men were assigned to this project? How many hours did each man work?

If Dr. Barger stated he a through search was done, and gave reasonable estimates for “time to do one comparison”, I would take his word for it. But Mr. Griffith has provided no such quote.


the fact that the N-waves and their succeeding muzzle blasts and echoes all occur in the correct order and intervals,

the fact that the shooting timespan is correct,

The five impulses in question, which extend of a period of 7.9 seconds were found, after the careful study of BBN, to have extended over a period of 7.9 seconds. Yes, that is an amazing coincidence. Who can explain that?


and the fact that windshield distortions among the identified gunshots occur when they should and do not occur when they should not. 

My original post was only on providing a possible explanation for the Time/Space correlation, which Mr. Griffith has, so far, failed to refute.

What evidence does he has that it was possible for BBN to run through 2,596 comparisons? What evidence does he provide that they did so?


When Mr. Elliott said a few days ago that he was preparing a response to the HSCA acoustical evidence, specifically the intricate correlations between the dictabelt impulse patterns and the test-firing impulse patterns, I urged him to read Dr. Thomas's chapters on the acoustical evidence in Hear No Evil. Clearly, he did not do that.

I am not going to read a book from a man who has lied to me. Who played a short 8-second clip of the Dictabelt tape, to give the impression one had several minutes of louds sirens, like the motorcycle was escorting the limousine to the hospital. And not the truth, a much shorter section of time with the sound of sirens distantly approaching, getting loud for a few seconds, then fading away, as if the motorcycle was waiting at the Trade Mart Center the whole time.

I am not going to read a book from a man who publish a map of Dealey Plaza with circles with a radius of 18 feet, to “prove” that Officer McLain could have been in a “BBN circle” and still not be seen in the Altgens photograph, went the BBN 1978 prediction was that the motorcycle would be found in circles with a radius of 9 feet, not 18 feet.

I’ll read whatever Dr. Barger has to say, but not Dr. Thomas.



By the way, the limousine averaged 11 mph, but its speed varied from 8 to 13 mph during the shooting. So, I would not expect the motorcycle, an alleged 120 to 160 feet behind the limousine to go a steady 11 mph. Indeed, it’s average speed would be slower, I think, to go around the sharp curve, which the limousine had already passed and speeded up by the time of the first shot. Also, the crowds were thicker back there. So, if anything, this steady 11 mph speed ‘Acoustical’ speed of this invisible (in the Altgens photograph) motorcycle does not lend support to the 1978 BBN study, but more incline to believe it is wrong.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 07:57:43 PM by Joe Elliott »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Michael T. Griffith

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That was exactly what my original post was about.

No, it is not. It does not address a single one of the components of the core of the acoustical evidence.

Explaining the correlation between time and space in their Exhibit F-367 chart. Let me put it to you more simply. They found the matches where they found them, because they only had time to look for them there. With only 15 days to run 17,388 comparisons, they had to limit their search for each shot to the small stretch of road they expected they might find it. That is my theory. [MORE CLUELESS ARGUMENTS SNIPPED]

This astoundingly erroneous argument tells us all we need to know about your horrible scholarship. I have personally quoted to you segments from the HSCA acoustical materials that debunk this claim.

I am not going to read a book from a man who has lied to me. . . . I’ll read whatever Dr. Barger has to say, but not Dr. Thomas.

This is the kind of juvenile argument you would expect to hear from a high school student. It is further proof that you have no business talking about the acoustical evidence.

A key part of being a credible researcher is understanding that you must read both sides, even if you believe some of the authors have "lied to me." I think Larry Sturdivan "lied to me" during the HSCA hearings, but I still had enough objectivity to read his book. I think Dale Myers has "lied to me," but I've read two of his three books. I think John McAdams "lied to me" in numerous online discussions, but I have still read just about every article he has ever posted on his website.

By the way, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Barger are good friends. Dr. Thomas worked closely with Dr. Barger while writing his chapters on the acoustical evidence in Hear No Evil. Dr. Barger proof-read Dr. Thomas's 2001 article on the acoustical evidence in the criminal science journal Science & Justice. And, Dr. Thompson has been working closely with Dr. Barger for the last five years while writing his defense and confirmation of the acoustical evidence in his upcoming book Last Second in Dallas.

I'll just put it this way: You have no credibility to talk about the acoustical evidence until you have read Dr. Thomas's four chapters on it in his book. Dr. Thomas's online articles are good, but the chapters in his book contain a lot of information not found in his online articles.

« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 09:26:35 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Joe Elliott

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No, it is not. It does not address a single one of the components of the core of the acoustical evidence.

This astoundingly erroneous argument tells us all we need to know about your horrible scholarship. I have personally quoted to you segments from the HSCA acoustical materials that debunk this claim.

This is the kind of juvenile argument you would expect to hear from a high school student. It is further proof that you have no business talking about the acoustical evidence.

A key part of being a credible researcher is understanding that you must read both sides, even if you believe some of the authors have "lied to me." I think Larry Sturdivan "lied to me" during the HSCA hearings, but I still had enough objectivity to read his book. I think Dale Myers has "lied to me," but I've read two of his three books. I think John McAdams "lied to me" in numerous online discussions, but I have still read just about every article he has ever posted on his website.

By the way, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Barger are good friends. Dr. Thomas worked closely with Dr. Barger while writing his chapters on the acoustical evidence in Hear No Evil. Dr. Barger proof-read Dr. Thomas's 2001 article on the acoustical evidence in the criminal science journal Science & Justice. And, Dr. Thompson has been working closely with Dr. Barger for the last five years while writing his defense and confirmation of the acoustical evidence in his upcoming book Last Second in Dallas.

I'll just put it this way: You have no credibility to talk about the acoustical evidence until you have read Dr. Thomas's four chapters on it in his book. Dr. Thomas's online articles are good, but the chapters in his book contain a lot of information not found in his online articles.

As I predicted, Mr. Griffith dodged all five of my questions.

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Offline Michael T. Griffith

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By the way, the limousine averaged 11 mph, but its speed varied from 8 to 13 mph during the shooting. So, I would not expect the motorcycle, an alleged 120 to 160 feet behind the limousine to go a steady 11 mph. Indeed, it’s average speed would be slower, I think, to go around the sharp curve, which the limousine had already passed and speeded up by the time of the first shot. Also, the crowds were thicker back there. So, if anything, this steady 11 mph speed ‘Acoustical’ speed of this invisible (in the Altgens photograph) motorcycle does not lend support to the 1978 BBN study, but more incline to believe it is wrong.

So here we have your first direct response to one item of the acoustical evidence, the first time you have ventured to directly address one part of the acoustical evidence. And, not surprisingly, your response, though less than 10 lines long, contains two bad errors.

A few points:

* No, McClain's motorcycle should not be visible in the Altgens photo. This claim was debunked years ago. Altgens took his photo about 1 second too late for McClain to have been in the picture.

* No one is talking about the "steady speed" of the motorcycle. We are talking about the motorcycle's average speed. No one is saying that the motorcycle traveled at 11.7 mph during every second of the shooting sequence, but that its average speed was 11.7 mph during that time. This is where your argument collapses. If you had done your homework, you would have avoided this basic error.

* The average speed of the stuck-mike motorcycle that recorded the sounds on the dictabelt was determined to be 11.7 mph. The FBI determined that JFK's limo traveled at an average speed of 11.3 mph on Elm Street. That is one heck of a coincidence if the dictabelt gunfire was not recorded by a mike in Dealey Plaza during the assassination.

In the Dealey Plaza test firing, the first test microphone that achieved a match on Houston Street was 143 feet from the microphone on Elm Street that achieved the last match. The shooting sequence on the dictabelt lasts 8.3 seconds. 143 feet divided by 8.3 seconds equals 17.2 feet per second, which equals an average speed of 11.7 mph. The FBI determined that JFK's limousine was traveling at an average speed of 11.3 mph on Elm Street.

* You must stop misusing "it's" as a possessive. You cannot say "it’s average speed." "It's" is a contraction of "it is." It is not a possessive. The correct word is "its," as in "its average speed." Most people learn this in their high school English class.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 12:34:35 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

Offline Joe Elliott

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* No, McClain's motorcycle should not be visible in the Altgens photo. This claim was debunked years ago. Altgens took his photo about 1 second too late for McClain to have been in the picture.

Debunked by Dr. Thomas using his own circles with a radius of 18-feet. And not the BBN circles with a radius of 9-feet. The 18-foot radius circle provided just enough area that the motorcycle might be hiding in. But did nothing to show that Officer McLain might have been in the area the BBN specified in 1978.

And Officer McLain should even be more visible 1.7 seconds later. He would be about 25 feet closer to Altgens, 1.7 seconds after z224.


* No one is talking about the "steady speed" of the motorcycle. We are talking about the motorcycle's average speed. No one is saying that the motorcycle traveled at 11.7 mph during every second of the shooting sequence, but that its average speed was 11.7 mph during that time. This is where your argument collapses. If you had done your homework, you would have avoided this basic error.

* The average speed of the stuck-mike motorcycle that recorded the sounds on the dictabelt was determined to be 11.7 mph. The FBI determined that JFK's limo traveled at an average speed of 11.3 mph on Elm Street. That is one heck of a coincidence if the dictabelt gunfire was not recorded by a mike in Dealey Plaza during the assassination.

If McLain was where you claim he was, he should be averaging a lot slower than 11.7 mph. The limousine was going faster because it was already on the straight part of Elm Street, with the crowds thinning. In contrast, Officer McLain would have been, during this time, taking the sharp turn from Houston onto Elm. So, the acoustic “evidence” does not match what we would expect.


In the Dealey Plaza test firing, the first test microphone that achieved a match on Houston Street was 143 feet from the microphone on Elm Street that achieved the last match. The shooting sequence on the dictabelt lasts 8.3 seconds. 143 feet divided by 8.3 seconds equals 17.2 feet per second, which equals an average speed of 11.7 mph. The FBI determined that JFK's limousine was traveling at an average speed of 11.3 mph on Elm Street.

But you don’t address the main part of my thread “HSCA 1978 Acoustic Study by BBN – Figure 367”

What if this acoustic correlation with the average 11 mph hypothesis is simply a result is that the BBN only checked certain stretches of the road for a match for each hypothetical shot.

Between Microphone 2 ( 5 ) and 2 ( 6 ) for the impulse at 137.70
Around Microphone 2 ( 11 ) for the impulse at 140.32
Between Microphone 3 ( 4 ) and 3 ( 8 ) for the impulse at 145.15
Between Microphone 3 ( 5 ) and 2 ( 8 ) for the impulse at 145.61

If they did this, off course the acoustic evidence would match up with the motorcycle going the speed they expected. How could it not?

And it is plausible that they did something like this because they only had 15 days to check out 2,592 possible correlations. If this was the case, any correlation they found would match the “average speed of 11 mph” model. So, there would be no big coincidence that the acoustic evidence matched a 11-mph speed so well.

Now, my hypotheses could be easily proven false, if you could provide a quote from Dr. Barger where he says that they did check out all 2,592 possible correlations in the 15 days they had to do so. But since you have not been able to find such a quote, the acceptance of the “incredible coincidence” of the correlation of the acoustic evidence with a 11-mph speed of the motorcycle has to be put on hold.


* You must stop misusing "it's" as a possessive. You cannot say "it’s average speed." "It's" is a contraction of "it is." It is not a possessive. The correct word is "its," as in "its average speed." Most people learn this in their high school English class.

I was more into math, learning or preparing to learn Algebra, Trigonometry and Calculus. And it is not Officer McClain. It is Officer McLain. Try to be extra careful with your current post the next time you chose to nitpick.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2020, 07:59:55 PM by Joe Elliott »

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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For readers who want to learn more about the HSCA acoustical evidence of multiple gunmen, I should have already mentioned Dr. G. Paul Chambers' superb chapter on the acoustical evidence in his book Head Shot: The Science Behind the JFK Assassination (New York: Prometheus Books, 2012), chapter 6. Believe it or not, until earlier today, I had completely forgotten about Dr. Chambers' chapter on the acoustical evidence! That's what can happen when you take a several-years-long break from a case!

Dr. Chambers is an internationally recognized expert in the field of shock physics and has performed extensive high-speed photographic studies of high-velocity impacts and deformations of solids as well as computer modeling of shock wave and matter interactions. He has worked as a research scientist/research director at NASA, with the Naval Surface Warfare Center, and with the Naval Research Laboratory.

Chapter 6 is 21 pages long. In it Dr. Chambers explains the acoustical evidence in clear, understandable terms. He explains the nature and importance of the correlations between the dictabelt and the Dealey Plaza test firing much better than do the HSCA materials. Frankly, he explains the correlations even a bit better than Dr. Thomas does. He also reviews the NRC panel's report and the Watson Research Laboratories' report and finds them unconvincing and contradictory, and he notes that they evade dealing with the powerful correlations between the dictabelt impulse patterns and the test-firing impulse patterns.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2020, 11:53:45 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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