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Author Topic: Infamy = Glory??  (Read 9273 times)

Offline Larry Chambliss

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2020, 07:24:59 PM »
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But could LHO have been a part of the Cuban ring/team? Acting in concert with those shooters?

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2020, 07:24:59 PM »


Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2020, 07:46:04 PM »
Yep, it appears that MDC wanted to be caught for his infamy and perceived glory. His motive was simply that.

On the other hand, it appears that LHO had more than infamy as motive. Political ideology and revolution were apparently his main goals.
He went to his rooming house - showing no interest at all along the way as to what happened to JFK - changed clothes, got his loaded revolver and took five extra bullets. He shot Tippit. Tried to shoot it out at the theatre.

He was trying to go down in a shootout but was stopped. After getting caught he wanted the communist lawyer John Abt to represent him. Abt was known for putting the government on trial and that's what he planned to do: plead a victim of capitalism. He said numerous times throughout his life that he hated the American political and economic systems. I think he didn't expect to survive - which is why he left his wedding ring and nearly all of his money with Marina - but having done so he would play the victim card.

So his motives were probably - given his makeup -  a mix of personal desire for fame, for notoriety and politics.

Or he was innocent and all of these people lied to frame him. People in the FBI and Dallas Police and CIA and waitresses and cab drivers and steamfitters and shoe salesmen and ticket takers and on and on and on.

Offline Duncan MacRae

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2020, 08:05:31 PM »

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2020, 08:05:31 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2020, 03:01:22 AM »
He went to his rooming house - showing no interest at all along the way as to what happened to JFK - changed clothes, got his loaded revolver and took five extra bullets. He shot Tippit. Tried to shoot it out at the theatre.

Cool story, bro. Too bad there’s no evidence for it.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2020, 05:25:35 AM »
Not everybody needs a motive to kill beyond just doing it for kicks. Some murderers have said they did it just for the hell of it

But nobody beats Richard Kuklinski in the 'cold-blooded' department


« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 04:40:51 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2020, 05:25:35 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2020, 04:21:19 PM »
No evidence at all - none - for Oswald shooting Tippit. That's the statement. Not that the evidence is mixed or inconclusive or not dispositive. But none at all.

This is exactly like the Trump supporters and voter fraud. The Oswald defenders are remarkably like the hardcore Trump defenders. It's a cultish thinking.

A good reminder of the 'Appeal to Rebellion' fallacy.
The Cult of Oswald writ large.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 05:44:14 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2020, 05:05:43 PM »
A good reminder of the 'Appeal to Rebellion' fallacy.
The Cult of Oswald writ large.

Anybody using "appeal to rebellion" as an argument must also believe that;

- Nixon didn't have plumbers who broke into Elsberg's office and the Democratic headquarters at Watergate
- Reagan did not sell arms to Iran and gave the money to the sandinistas in Nicaragua
- Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction as claimed by George W. Bush
- That Trump is telling the truth about voter fraud

and so on....

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2020, 08:36:37 PM »
Appeal to rebellion: Conspiracy theory logical fallacies
http://warp.povusers.org/grrr/conspiracytheories.html

Most conspiracy theories don't make sense nor withstand any scrutiny. They usually involve operations so immense that it's basically impossible for them to be kept secret, and all the proof given by conspiracy theorists usually have a very simple explanation (usually much simpler than the explanation given by the theorists).

Yet conspiracy theories are very popular and appealing. Even when they don't make sense and there's just no proof, many people still believe them. Why?

Here are some typical logical fallacies used by conspiracy theorists:

One big reason for this is that some conspiracy theorists are clever. They use psychology to make their theories sound more plausible. They appeal to certain psychological phenomena which make people to tend to believe them. However, these psychological tricks are nothing more than logical fallacies. They are simply so well disguised that many people can't see them for what they are.

Conspiracy theories in general, and the "n% of people doubt the story" claims in particular, also appeal to a sense of rebellion in people.

As Wikipedia puts it, "a rebellion is, in the most general sense, a refusal to accept authority."

People don't want to be sheep who are patronized by authority and told what they have to do and how they have to think. People usually distrust authorities and many believe that authorities are selfish and abuse people for their own benefit. This is an extremely fertile ground for conspiracy theories.

This is so ingrained in people that a sentence like "the official story" has basically become a synonym for "a coverup/lie". Whenever "the official story" is mentioned, it immediately makes people think that it's some kind of coverup, something not true.

Conspiracy theorists are masters at abusing this psyhcological phenomenon for their advantage. They basically insinuate that "if you believe the official story then you are gullible because you are being lied to". They want to make it feel that doubting the original story is a sign of intelligence and logical thinking. However, believing a conspiracy theory usually shows, quite ironically, a great lack of logical thinking.

This is an actual quote from a JFK assassination conspiracy theory website. It's almost as hilarious as it is contradictory: "In the end, you have to decide for yourself what to believe. But don't just believe what the U.S. Government tells you!"

In other words, believe anything you want except the official story!

 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 09:22:08 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Infamy = Glory??
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2020, 08:36:37 PM »