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Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 159415 times)

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1248 on: May 02, 2023, 05:24:41 AM »
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The woman wearing the blue scarf is Sharon Simmons, not Karen Westbrook.
The various identifications are summed up in Pat Speer's website in the Chapter 7b "More Pieces in the Plaza".
So... Karen Westbrook misidentified herself and her friends from the back and the front (her face is seen in the Betzner photo) ? Where do you think Westbrook was?

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1248 on: May 02, 2023, 05:24:41 AM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1249 on: May 02, 2023, 09:34:58 AM »
So... Karen Westbrook misidentified herself and her friends from the back and the front (her face is seen in the Betzner photo) ? Where do you think Westbrook was?


Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1250 on: May 02, 2023, 03:55:04 PM »

If you are correct, that makes it even more unlikely that the first shot was at z222.  You have her opposite JFK at about z198.  She said "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion".  If she was right, that puts the first shot sound enough before z198 to give the impression that the car was not quite directly in front of her.  If you subtract 1.5 frames to find the time the bullet hit, that would mean the bullet hit before z195.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 03:55:47 PM by Andrew Mason »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1250 on: May 02, 2023, 03:55:04 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1251 on: May 02, 2023, 06:03:14 PM »
If you are correct, that makes it even more unlikely that the first shot was at z222.  You have her opposite JFK at about z198.  She said "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion".  If she was right, that puts the first shot sound enough before z198 to give the impression that the car was not quite directly in front of her.  If you subtract 1.5 frames to find the time the bullet hit, that would mean the bullet hit before z195.


'"If you are correct, that makes it even more unlikely that the first shot was at z222.  You have her opposite JFK at about z198.  She said "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion".  " 

If Westbrook heard the first shot at Z198 ....and that bullet hit JFK ( highly unlikely from the TSBD, because of the tree) then JFK would have been reacting to being hit at the time Westbrook observed him, because bullets travel faster than the speed of sound.   

« Last Edit: May 02, 2023, 06:17:13 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1252 on: May 02, 2023, 06:47:15 PM »
The PEP's analysis involving JFK's sharp head turn to the left has been completely debunked in this thread - Reply#60, page 8
JFK makes no sharp head turn and is, in fact, still looking to his right as he passes behind the Stemmons sign.
There is no hand freeze, he simply starts waving and then begins to lower his right hand to it's original position.
The notion that he is reaching for his throat before he passes behind the Stemmons sign has also been debunked in this thread. In the graphic below it can be seen that between z224 and z225 JFK's hand is lowering. That is to say, his hand is moving away from his throat:

It looks like the left hand has moved toward the chest from z224 to z225.

Quote
This is completely untrue. Jackie had turned to her right well before this. Around the z170's JFK, Jackie and JBC all turn to their right in reaction to Mary Woodward and her colleagues shouting out to the President. Something both Woodward and Vickie Adams describe in detail.
Jackie turns her head from looking left in z173 to looking somewhat right by z193 looking toward the crowd on the right but not looking at JFK.  She then turns farther right until about z212 so that she is looking right at her husband (seen by her hat in z212) and holds this position after she emerges from behind the Stemmons sign:



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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1252 on: May 02, 2023, 06:47:15 PM »


Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1253 on: May 02, 2023, 07:00:43 PM »

'"If you are correct, that makes it even more unlikely that the first shot was at z222.  You have her opposite JFK at about z198.  She said "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion".  " 

If Westbrook heard the first shot at Z198 ....and that bullet hit JFK ( highly unlikely from the TSBD, because of the tree) then JFK would have been reacting to being hit at the time Westbrook observed him, because bullets travel faster than the speed of sound.
Sound in air travels at 1127 fps at 68F temperature. The average bullet speed over the 175 feet from the SN to JFK at z198 is 2100 fps.  So the bullet would take 175/2100=83 ms to reach JFK and the sound would take 175/1127=155 ms.  Time difference between arrival of bullet and arrival of sound is 155-83=72 ms. Time between frames = 1/18.3=55 ms. 

So there would be a bit more than 1 frame between arrival of bullet and arrival of sound.  Are you saying that JFK would necessarily have been reacting within that time? If so, why?  How would that even be possible?

As far as the tree is concerned, JFK could have been easily tracked as he passed under the tree (as seen in the Secret Service film from Dec. 1963) and was clear at a point between the lamp post and Thornton sign (z190-z200).

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1254 on: May 03, 2023, 12:03:29 AM »
As far as the tree is concerned, JFK could have been easily tracked as he passed under the tree (as seen in the Secret Service film from Dec. 1963) and was clear at a point between the lamp post and Thornton sign (z190-z200).

"Porky"'s at it again.

 

The President was obscured by tree foliage at Z195.


Holy cow. Where did he go?

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1255 on: May 03, 2023, 08:56:24 AM »
If you are correct, that makes it even more unlikely that the first shot was at z222.  You have her opposite JFK at about z198.  She said "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion".  If she was right, that puts the first shot sound enough before z198 to give the impression that the car was not quite directly in front of her.  If you subtract 1.5 frames to find the time the bullet hit, that would mean the bullet hit before z195.

A group of five witnesses to her right - Templin, Brandt, Newman, Burney and Dishong - unanimously agree that JFK had passed their position at the time of the first shot.
Westbrook's reported phrase, that the "car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion", simply means that her position was close to the limo at the time of the first shot. It does not give us any information as to whether the limo had passed her position or not. You have chosen it to mean the limo had not yet reached her position. That's your choice. You do this in spite of the group of witnesses to her right who have the limo already past their position at the time of the first shot. Something that agrees with John Chism's claim that the limo was in front of him at the time of the first shot.
That you prefer your own twisted interpretation of a single piece of evidence to suit your own needs, over the mass of evidence contradicting you dead theory, isn't anything new.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #1255 on: May 03, 2023, 08:56:24 AM »