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Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 169237 times)

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2020, 02:58:35 AM »
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Another strong indication that JBC was shot at the same time as JFK comes from a detail in the WC testimonies of Jackie Kennedy and Connally himself:

"Mrs. KENNEDY. You know, there is always noise in a motorcade and there are always motorcycles, besides us, a lot of them backfiring. So I was looking to the left. I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things. But then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." (my emphasis)

"[CONNALLY] I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----" (my emphasis)

JBC is clear, immediately after being shot he said "Oh, no, no, no". He implies he says this and "My God, they are going to kill us all" before collapsing into Nellie's lap. I believe the clip below shows JBC calling out immediately after being shot:


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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2020, 02:58:35 AM »


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2020, 03:52:57 AM »
JBC has always been clear that he was hit and said "No no no" after he was turning back towards the front well after frame 223. Nellie said he was hit right AFTER saying "No no no". Here she is at 5:19.
Nellie always maintained  that JFK already had his hands to his throat when JBC did his turn around and before JBC was hit.
JBC said even after turning around he could not see JFK out of the corner of his eye. With JFK behind and slightly right tf JBC he should easily see him when his head turned only 90 degrees. The reason he couldn't see JFK could be because JFK was already leaning to his left.
JBC said he fell almost immediately back onto Nellie once shot but if he was hit at 223 he did a full turn around to look for JFK before falling back on Nellie.
 I think the clearest version of the events should come from Nellie as she was an observer that was never hit. Her description of seeing JFK raise his hands well before her husband was shot is very credible and matches JBC's version.
 
 

Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2020, 02:49:14 PM »
Rosemary Willis is seen running alongside the Presidential limousine in the Zapruder film and other assassination motion pictures. She is clearly visible in her white, hooded coat and a red skirt.

At circa Z-164-171 she starts to slow down, then she stops running and, simultaneous with her slowing/stopping, she slightly turns her level-facing head to end up looking towards the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository. Willis stated she stopped because she heard a loud noise that attracted her attention.

Immediately after President Kennedy is first hidden at frame 207 by the "Stemmons Freeway" traffic sign in the Zapruder film, Willis suddenly, and beginning at Z-214, snaps her head very rapidly 90 to 100 degrees westward (completely away from the Depository southeast corner) within 0.16 second to then face Abraham Zapruder and the grassy knoll by Z-217.

She told the HSCA in 1978 that she heard four loud noises and saw suspicious activity on the grassy knoll.


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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2020, 02:49:14 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2020, 10:00:28 PM »
Or she might have believed he was hit by the first shot because he was hit by the first shot.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2020, 10:17:52 PM »
Or she might have believed he was hit by the first shot because he was hit by the first shot.

Or he might have only heard the first and third shots.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2020, 10:17:52 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2020, 01:04:10 AM »
There is a fundamental difference in the accounts of John and Nellie Connally concerning when JBC used the phrase "Oh, no, no, no".
JBC is clear it happened after he was shot and Nellie is equally clear it happened before he was shot.
In his WC testimony JBC states that he "said" this phrase, in the interview with Nellie Connally that Chris posted she implies he said it with no urgency, however, in her WC testimony Jackie Kennedy states that "...then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." She uses the word "yelling" three times and even says "Governor Connally screamed." In my view, the clip below shows Connally using the phrase immediately after being shot and it's more like Jackie Kennedy's version:



IMO this clip supports JBC's version of when he used the phrase - immediately after being shot. There are a few things about Nellie's version I have a problem with. In the interview Chris posted Nellie makes the following points:
She hears a noise that draws her attention
She turns in time to see JFK raise his hands to his throat
JBC turns to his right but can't see JFK
"Then he flipped to his left but he still couldn't see him"
Then he said "No, no, no"
Then, as he began to turn back he was shot.

Firstly, and most importantly, this account of events is absolutely NOT shown in the above clip.
Secondly, why would JBC be 'yelling' if he wasn't aware what was going on and hadn't been shot?
Thirdly, JBC immediately twists around in his seat offering no shot to his back from the TSBD.

Either JBC or Nellie is correct on this point, it can't be both. IMO the weight of the available (limited) evidence supports JBC.


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2020, 04:11:23 AM »
There is a fundamental difference in the accounts of John and Nellie Connally concerning when JBC used the phrase "Oh, no, no, no".
JBC is clear it happened after he was shot and Nellie is equally clear it happened before he was shot.
In his WC testimony JBC states that he "said" this phrase, in the interview with Nellie Connally that Chris posted she implies he said it with no urgency, however, in her WC testimony Jackie Kennedy states that "...then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." She uses the word "yelling" three times and even says "Governor Connally screamed." In my view, the clip below shows Connally using the phrase immediately after being shot and it's more like Jackie Kennedy's version:



IMO this clip supports JBC's version of when he used the phrase - immediately after being shot. There are a few things about Nellie's version I have a problem with. In the interview Chris posted Nellie makes the following points:
She hears a noise that draws her attention
She turns in time to see JFK raise his hands to his throat
JBC turns to his right but can't see JFK
"Then he flipped to his left but he still couldn't see him"
Then he said "No, no, no"
Then, as he began to turn back he was shot.

Firstly, and most importantly, this account of events is absolutely NOT shown in the above clip.
Secondly, why would JBC be 'yelling' if he wasn't aware what was going on and hadn't been shot?
Thirdly, JBC immediately twists around in his seat offering no shot to his back from the TSBD.

Either JBC or Nellie is correct on this point, it can't be both. IMO the weight of the available (limited) evidence supports JBC.
Do you read lips? you must be guessing that is what he said. Maybe his open mouth is due to being shot or maybe he is grunting while he tries to spin around in that tiny seat with his knees sitting very high due to the low floor and maybe because his knees were touching or almost up against the seat in front of him. All we can do is speculate.
 I see his mouth is open far more than we do when talking and his mouth just stays agape. Also you don't generally see peoples mouth moving from this distance and imperfect resolution. We don't see him say 'they are gong to kill us all, and we don't see Jackie say anything. We don't see Kellerman say 'Get to Parkland either".   
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 04:13:45 AM by Chris Bristow »

Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2020, 04:19:27 AM »
Jerry Organ said:
Kennedy may have also stopped smiling if he saw the Umbrella Man protester on the sidewalk as the car approached the Stemmons sign. If that happened, and Nellie noticed it, it could have influenced her belief he was hit by the first shot."

Ok the idea that Nellie saw JFK frown at the umbrella man and that caused her to think he had been shot before 223? I don't want to be insulting but that is such a stretch i am really surprised you tried to float such a theory.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 04:22:49 AM by Chris Bristow »

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2020, 04:19:27 AM »