The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

Unfortunately for you, every single mechanical aspect of your Theory's first two shots has now been blown to smithereens. Not just by me, but Mytton, Nickerson and Collins. You have nothing; nada. But I'll show you what sort of fellow I am. I hope you get at least an orange in your sock.

Well, it hasn't really been tested, has it?  All we have to go on is your and other's "expert" opinion.  You have not done as I asked and given us a range that JFK's midline could have been from the right side of the car; you have not given us a range that JBC's midline could have been in relation to JFK's; you have not given us a range for the separation of JFK's neck from JBC's spine; and you have not given us a range for the angle that JBC is turned at z195.  Until that is accurately determined, no one can say that the SN to JFK neck to JBC thigh trajectory was not possible.  I suggest that it was quite possible from z190-200 or so.  No one has proven otherwise.

If you're going to remain faithful to the shot pattern, think second shot Z240s (or maybe earlier, like one sec earlier).

That would require a first shot before Zapruder started filming.  The evidence from multiple independent sources is that the first shot was after z186 and that it struck JFK. 

It is not a matter of remaining faithful to the shot pattern. The 1.......2...3 shot pattern is based on multiple sources of real and independent evidence, not faith. 

The SBT on the other hand, is based on the notion that this evidence is somehow not only wrong, but that there was something operating that caused over 40 witnesses (plus a host of others who simply described one shot and then two more shots) to get it wrong the same way.  Belief in such things is based on faith because there is certainly no evidence that that could occur, let alone that it did in this case.

[Charles Collins]

I think I agree somewhat with points made by everyone:)

I agree with Jerry that there is a quick turn of Jackie’s head in approx 1/2 a sec between z160-170. However, this may be some other noise than a rifle shot. It could have been an actual motorcycle backfire.

I agree with Mr. Collins opinion that a shooter in the SE window could possibly have taken shots from a seated position on the box nearest the pipes and was able to lean back and remain out of sight during the Hughes film segment of the JFK limo approaching TSBD (including turning on Elm st.) If he did so, however, then the WC theory for the box on the window ledge being used as rifle test is improbable. And what about the shell ejections? Do they fly over top of those stacked boxes if shooter fires from seated position near the pipes?

I agree with some of Andrew Masons reasons for his theory of the shots fired in a very brief few seconds,  in the 1....2..3 pattern and the 1st shot actually IS hitting JFK  Imo, however,  That 1st shot is at Z223 rather than earlier because of the tree, although the Willis girl head turn after full stop, may indicate slightly earlier at z205 perhaps in coincidence with Willis photo taken and just after Betzner photo at z186 approx. This spacing coincides fairly close to Harold Norman’s impressions of the shot spacing and his stated observation of hearing 1 shot, then saw JFK “slump” then heard 2 more shots after that.

I agree with the general SBT being plausible But only IF BOTH Connallys legs are turned towards the limo door in effect approx 45 degrees as with his apparent turned shoulders and face turned also rightward. In this position, the hat is held upside down with the right hand on top of the outer rim of the hat keeping it pressed down on top of his left leg. The well of the hat is thus hanging off the Left side of his left leg at the time of the Z223 shot that (Imo) DID penetrate thru JFK and still had enough momentum to penetrate thru Gov. Connolly also. The projectile, however, was probably NOT CE 399 as no bullet experiment except for perhaps the one  with 36” length array of sideways glued 1” pine boards , produces an MC bullet with such minimal deformation as CE 399 .

It is good to see that you have been thinking about all of this.

If he did so, however, then the WC theory for the box on the window ledge being used as rifle test is improbable. And what about the shell ejections? Do they fly over top of those stacked boxes if shooter fires from seated position near the pipes?

The height of the boxes stacked under the window is about 27”. When seated on the other box (which is about 12” high if I remember correctly) the stack of boxes are at a good position to be a rifle support. The relative heights of the shoulder of the seated shooter and the boxes are practically the same as they would be if he were kneeling behind the boxes. But the seated position is much more stable than a kneeling position. Plus he wouldn’t need to make a clumsy and time consuming move to get into a kneeling position. And if you look at the Marine Corps’ manual, they instruct soldiers using the kneeling position to rest their rear ends on the heel of their foot for good support and stability. So the seated position makes the most sense to me.

As far as the ejected shells goes, Max Holland’s demonstration (in “The Lost Bullet”) shows where they went for a first shot standing, and the other two shots kneeling. And it was similar to what we can see in the photos taken of the shells in the sniper’s nest. I submit that the seated position is practically the same as the kneeling position because the rifle’s position is the same (the main difference is the legs of the shooter). And I sure would have liked to see the ejected shell results of an early shot taken from a seated position. That is one of the items that Max Holland didn’t consider. He assumed that the shooter had to be standing to be able to aim that shot. But the seated position allows it also. Although the corner of the box resting on the window sill is very close and (in my opinion) could have been the cause of the shot missing the limo entirely. And I suspect the ejected shell would end up in a similar position because it is the angle of the aim of the rifle that makes the difference. The higher elevation of the rifle (standing vs seated) would tend to make the shell go further before it hit the floor. However, the stacks of boxes might have kept it from going even further anyway. Therefore a demonstration of the early shot from a seated position would have been interesting.

[Andrew Mason]

It's been tested. And to a reasonable degree of precision. You just don't like the results.

By "tested" I mean actually tested, not "theoretically" tested.

Remember I looked at the first two pages of your PDF and found only one witness.

You did not deal with the 47+ witnesses who recalled the shot pattern 1.........2....3 that is completely inconsistent with a first shot miss.  You simply questioned how a couple of witnesses who said JFK reacted to the first shot by arguing that they could not see what they said they saw. 

Are you having trouble dismissing a Theory you spent almost two decades promoting? You have to start thinking about your family and professional reputation. Don't be ashamed. 2020 wasn't good for a lot of folks.

The evidence is that that JFK reacted to the first shot in a way that is not seen prior to z200.  That is not a theory.  That is what witnesses independently reported observing. 

That JFK was struck by the first shot is also a necessary conclusion to the shot pattern: 1...........2.....3 .  That is not a theory. That is what 47+ witnesses independently reported hearing.

Nothing in the last 20 years that I have seen negates that evidence.  Not even your "theory" which is that these independent consistent witnesses were completely wrong in the same way.  So who is the "theorist" here?

[John Tonkovich]

Mr Organ is quite the Mcadams/ Meyers guy.  Thoroughly deluded.

[Zeon Mason]

Regarding the seated position proposal Mr. Collins has suggested for the shooter , if the dent on the top of the box on window ledge can be due to something other than a riffle then the purpose of those stacked boxes may have been solely to provide shade from the sun.

There is not much time for the shooter to have moved and stacked those 3 boxes up against the window and lifting 2 of the 3 and adjusting them
Jisr right without accidentally the one on the window ledge itself not falling out the window.

If the timeline for Bonnie Ray Williams not leaving the 6tjh floor until approx 12:23 then the shooter has only about 2 minutes to walk across the  6th floor probably 180 ft if he was hodong put on the mid landing of the 7th floor staircase

If so, then it’s going to take another 30 secs to walk fast at 6ft/sec arriving at the SE window approx 12:23:30.

If the Bronson film starts approx 12:25, then the shooter must have completed his moving and stacking the 3 boxes in 1 minute 20 secs and then seated himself and holding his rifle in way not to be seen in Bronson film

He also kept himself out of the Hughes film as the JfK approaches the TSBD and turns onto Elm at.

If the shooter is the seated position
on the 15” ? height box (adjacent to the pipes) would not some part of his upper legs and knee be visible from the perspective of the Hughes and or the Bronson film camera position?

[Charles Collins]

Regarding the seated position proposal Mr. Collins has suggested for the shooter , if the dent on the top of the box on window ledge can be due to something other than a riffle then the purpose of those stacked boxes may have been solely to provide shade from the sun.

There is not much time for the shooter to have moved and stacked those 3 boxes up against the window and lifting 2 of the 3 and adjusting them
Jisr right without accidentally the one on the window ledge itself not falling out the window.

If the timeline for Bonnie Ray Williams not leaving the 6tjh floor until approx 12:23 then the shooter has only about 2 minutes to walk across the  6th floor probably 180 ft if he was hodong put on the mid landing of the 7th floor staircase

If so, then it’s going to take another 30 secs to walk fast at 6ft/sec arriving at the SE window approx 12:23:30.

If the Bronson film starts approx 12:25, then the shooter must have completed his moving and stacking the 3 boxes in 1 minute 20 secs and then seated himself and holding his rifle in way not to be seen in Bronson film

He also kept himself out of the Hughes film as the JfK approaches the TSBD and turns onto Elm at.

If the shooter is the seated position
on the 15” ? height box (adjacent to the pipes) would not some part of his upper legs and knee be visible from the perspective of the Hughes and or the Bronson film camera position?

if the dent on the top of the box on window ledge can be due to something other than a riffle then the purpose of those stacked boxes may have been solely to provide shade from the sun.

The cause of the dent isn’t known for certain. The boxes would also have given the shooter cover by at least partially blocking the view of some of the people below.


There is not much time for the shooter to have moved and stacked those 3 boxes up against the window and lifting 2 of the 3 and adjusting them
Jisr right without accidentally the one on the window ledge itself not falling out the window.

LHO could have moved the boxes earlier. If I remember correctly, one of the workers on the other side of the building said that he believed LHO was in the area of the sniper’s nest some time that morning. The box on the window sill was leaning back towards the other two boxes. It wasn’t going to fall out the window without a shove.

If the timeline for Bonnie Ray Williams not leaving the 6tjh floor until approx 12:23 then the shooter has only about 2 minutes to walk across the  6th floor probably 180 ft if he was hodong put on the mid landing of the 7th floor staircase

Personally I believe that LHO was sitting very quietly in the sniper’s nest while BRW was eating. But that’s just my speculation of course.


If the Bronson film starts approx 12:25, then the shooter must have completed his moving and stacking the 3 boxes in 1 minute 20 secs and then seated himself and holding his rifle in way not to be seen in Bronson film

He also kept himself out of the Hughes film as the JfK approaches the TSBD and turns onto Elm at.

If the shooter is the seated position
on the 15” ? height box (adjacent to the pipes) would not some part of his upper legs and knee be visible from the perspective of the Hughes and or the Bronson film camera position?

The box is about 12” high if I remember correctly. It is possible that a small portion of leg might be exposed to the view from Hughes’ and/or Bronson’s angles. It would be in the lower right corner of the window from their points of view. However, it would not be likely for it to be discernible in their films. The distances from their positions to the window, camera/film capabilities (limitations), and color of his pants (blending with the color of the boxes) are all issues.

[Jerry Freeman]

                                                             

[Bill Chapman]

The figure model is bend at articulation points.

Gouge in Box A comes close to fitting for headshot in this model. It's so close I wouldn't rule it out.

Congrats on yet another masterwork, Jerry