The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

In Nellies WC Statement she references JBC cried out Oh No No No afte being struck the first shot. The same as what Jackie stated.

Mrs. CONNALLY. …….Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.

Mrs. CONNALLY. -----------------------------------As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no."

This is clearly not the case Jack. Nellie is adamant it was the second shot that hit JBC. You seem to have left the important bit out of you're quote:

Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no."


Although, as I've demonstrated, there are good reasons to doubt the reliability of Nellie's version of events, it's important to keep things in the correct context. She is saying JBC was 'yelling' "no, no, no" even though he hadn't been hit and didn't really know what was going on as he couldn't see JFK. As I've already expressed, I find it unlikely JBC is calling out before being shot and that Nellie's memory of this event is inaccurate.

[Dan O'meara]

Rosemary Willis is seen running alongside the Presidential limousine in the Zapruder film and other assassination motion pictures. She is clearly visible in her white, hooded coat and a red skirt.

At circa Z-164-171 she starts to slow down, then she stops running and, simultaneous with her slowing/stopping, she slightly turns her level-facing head to end up looking towards the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository. Willis stated she stopped because she heard a loud noise that attracted her attention.

Immediately after President Kennedy is first hidden at frame 207 by the "Stemmons Freeway" traffic sign in the Zapruder film, Willis suddenly, and beginning at Z-214, snaps her head very rapidly 90 to 100 degrees westward (completely away from the Depository southeast corner) within 0.16 second to then face Abraham Zapruder and the grassy knoll by Z-217.

She told the HSCA in 1978 that she heard four loud noises and saw suspicious activity on the grassy knoll.

I just find it incredibly unlikely that this little girl is reacting a loud noise that a car full of SS men haven't noticed. Willis can be seen running alongside the Presidential follow-up car so we can compare the reactions of both:



She first appears in the Elsie Dorman footage running along with her big sister (or mother). By Zapruder she has streaked ahead and I suspect she is reacting to being called back.

[John Tonkovich]

To suggest Connally was shot in the back whilst lying in Mrs Connally's lap is beyond bizarre.
And I note you have failed to provide the explanation as to how Mr West knew the timing of the shots that allowed him to determine the points of impact.

Mr West was supplied with that information by SS, FBI, who were referencing the...Z film. (First generation.)
Obviously, you either did not read, or do not understand, the work of Tom Purvis.
Might want to look at third shot location, survey station 4+95. Which the WC published, perhaps forgetting to omit it, as it contradicts the entire " magic bullet" theory.

[Dan O'meara]

Mr West was supplied with that information by SS, FBI, who were referencing the...Z film. (First generation.)
Obviously, you either did not read, or do not understand, the work of Tom Purvis.
Might want to look at third shot location, survey station 4+95. Which the WC published, perhaps forgetting to omit it, as it contradicts the entire " magic bullet" theory.

In terms of this thread the West survey has zero relevance. The timing of the shots was provided by the SS/FBI and West simply worked out the points of impact using the timings he was provided with.  The only relevant aspect of it is how the timing of the shots was worked out. This has nothing to do with the West survey.
The only work of Tom Purvis I'm familiar with is to do with the West survey and you're right, I didn't understand what was being said. For example, the first shot was said to have passed through a branch of an oak tree (I don't understand why the assassin was shooting through the tree), the projectile then began to tumble after passing through the branch but still hit JFK in the back (I don't understand how that happened), it then "merely lodged" itself in JFK's back " due to impaired velocity as a result of having penetrated a limb of the live oak", yet there was still enough velocity to shear off a lead fragment which had been squeezed out of the base of the bullet, which then flew out of JFK's throat (something I truly don't understand). This fragment then misses Connally sat directly in from of him (I'm not too sure about that either)
As for the third shot, I find the scenario outlined so baffling that I don't know where to begin. The upshot is that this bullet is supposed to have hit JBC when he turned his back after the headshot but, as I've previously demonstrated, there was already blood streaming down his back by this time.
In a previous post you said:

"Connaly's wound occured at Z312, while he was lying ( no pun intended) down across the jump seats."

If this 'observation' is based on the work of Tom Purvis it shows you have far less understanding of his work than I do.

[John Tonkovich]

In terms of this thread the West survey has zero relevance. The timing of the shots was provided by the SS/FBI and West simply worked out the points of impact using the timings he was provided with.  The only relevant aspect of it is how the timing of the shots was worked out. This has nothing to do with the West survey.
The only work of Tom Purvis I'm familiar with is to do with the West survey and you're right, I didn't understand what was being said. For example, the first shot was said to have passed through a branch of an oak tree (I don't understand why the assassin was shooting through the tree), the projectile then began to tumble after passing through the branch but still hit JFK in the back (I don't understand how that happened), it then "merely lodged" itself in JFK's back " due to impaired velocity as a result of having penetrated a limb of the live oak", yet there was still enough velocity to shear off a lead fragment which had been squeezed out of the base of the bullet, which then flew out of JFK's throat (something I truly don't understand). This fragment then misses Connally sat directly in from of him (I'm not too sure about that either)
As for the third shot, I find the scenario outlined so baffling that I don't know where to begin. The upshot is that this bullet is supposed to have hit JBC when he turned his back after the headshot but, as I've previously demonstrated, there was already blood streaming down his back by this time.
In a previous post you said:

"Connaly's wound occured at Z312, while he was lying ( no pun intended) down across the jump seats."

If this 'observation' is based on the work of Tom Purvis it shows you have far less understanding of his work than I do.

Third shot - actually, third hit -was z349z350. Per Mr West's survey station, 4+95.
You are familiar with Purvis' - and Mr West's  - work yet you don't know this?
Or that z12 hit was from second shot?
Your comprehension....not so good.

[Dan O'meara]

Third shot - actually, third hit -was z349z350. Per Mr West's survey station, 4+95.
You are familiar with Purvis' - and Mr West's  - work yet you don't know this?

Is this the shot that somehow hits JFK in the back of the neck even though he's totally slumped over to his left by this point. The bullet enters just below the collar of his jacket (something not shown on his jacket, his shirt or the autopsy). After entering the base of his neck it exits the front of his skull (?? don't ask me how this happens), after which it enters Connally's already blood-soaked back on a downward trajectory!!(don't ask me about that either.)
Is this the shot I know nothing about?

Or that z12 hit was from second shot?
Your comprehension....not so good.

hmmm....

[Dan O'meara]

Carrying on with the statements of the witnesses who were closest to the assassination. Few were closer than Bill and Gayle Newman. Hours after the assassination they were interviewed on TV about what they witnessed:
 

Bill Newman:

"The President's car was some 50 ft still yet, in front of us, coming towards us when we heard the first shot and the President - I don't know who was shot first - but the President jumped up in his seat and I thought it scared him. I thought it was a firecracker...And then as the car got directly in front of us, well a gunshot, apparently from behind us, hit the President in the side of the temple [his finger pointing to his temple]"

Bill Newman, stood feet in front of the assassination, focussing on the President, describes him reacting to the first shot ("jumped up in his seat"). This is surely a reference to JFK's hands flying to his throat. The second shot being the infamous headshot.
This is confirmed by another witness stood only feet away from the assassination. In his FBI statement given two days after the assassination, Charles Brehm states the following:

"When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.

BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots."

JFK reacts to the first shot (stiffens), the second shot is the headshot and then there is a third shot. Brehm is clearly familiar with rifles and was looking directly at the President at the time of the shooting.

There will always be discrepancies and contradictory statements but a pattern is beginning to emerge from the testimonies of those closest to the assassination - first shot, JFK reacts to being hit, second shot, headshot, third shot, (?). It will be important to collect more witness statements from those closest to the event but another question has now come into focus - what happened to the third shot?

[John Tonkovich]

Carrying on with the statements of the witnesses who were closest to the assassination. Few were closer than Bill and Gayle Newman. Hours after the assassination they were interviewed on TV about what they witnessed:
 

Bill Newman:

"The President's car was some 50 ft still yet, in front of us, coming towards us when we heard the first shot and the President - I don't know who was shot first - but the President jumped up in his seat and I thought it scared him. I thought it was a firecracker...And then as the car got directly in front of us, well a gunshot, apparently from behind us, hit the President in the side of the temple [his finger pointing to his temple]"

Bill Newman, stood feet in front of the assassination, focussing on the President, describes him reacting to the first shot ("jumped up in his seat"). This is surely a reference to JFK's hands flying to his throat. The second shot being the infamous headshot.
This is confirmed by another witness stood only feet away from the assassination. In his FBI statement given two days after the assassination, Charles Brehm states the following:

"When the President's automobile was very close to him and he could see the President's face very well, the President was seated, but was leaning forward when he stiffened perceptibly at the same instant what appeared to be a rifle shot sounded. According to BREHM, the President seemed do to stiffen and come to a pause when another shot sounded and the President appeared to be badly hit in the head. BREHM said when the President was hit by the second shot, he could notice the President's hair fly up, and then roll over to his side, as Mrs. KENNEDY was apparently pulling him in that direction.

BREHM said that a third shot followed and that all three shots were relatively close together. BREHM stated that he was in military service and he has had experience with bolt-action rifles, and he expressed the opinion that the three shots were fired just about as quickly as an individual can maneuver a bolt-action rifle, take aim, and fire three shots."

JFK reacts to the first shot (stiffens), the second shot is the headshot and then there is a third shot. Brehm is clearly familiar with rifles and was looking directly at the President at the time of the shooting.

There will always be discrepancies and contradictory statements but a pattern is beginning to emerge from the testimonies of those closest to the assassination - first shot, JFK reacts to being hit, second shot, headshot, third shot, (?). It will be important to collect more witness statements from those closest to the event but another question has now come into focus - what happened to the third shot?

You're getting closer.
Check out Ike Altgens testimony, and his position on the grass. He's quite visible in the Zfilm.