The First Shot

[Andrew Mason]

Thank you for sharing something in an obscure book I'll probably never come across or my library would have. It's good to have a fresh piece of the puzzle. However, for example, the people in Car No.4 (Vice-Presidential car) suggest the first shot occurred later:

• Jacks (driver): "My car had just straightened up from making the left turn..."
• Youngblood (SS agent): "As we were beginning to go down this incline ..."
• LBJ" "After we had proceeded a short way down Elm Street..."
• Lady Bird: "We were rounding a curve, going down a hill..."

Not sure where that gets us, but the Z150s-160s would place Baskin about the south edge of the Dallas County Records Bldg. I think the Z200s would be getting the press car too close to the end of the block.

One does not have to guess. The first press car was the car immediately behind the Cabell car. The Cabell car was immediately behind the VP Security car.  The VP Security car was immediately behind the VP car.  We can see that the VP car at z160 is pointing north of a line from Zapruder to the corner so it is about half way into the turn.  The Cabell car has yet to enter the intersection.  So the first press car is still about 2 car lengths from entering the intersection.  That is about 30 feet. Moving at about 1 foot per frame, maybe a bit slower going through the intersection, that would put the first press car just entering the intersection at z190 which correlates to the first shot.  That fits Betzner, Willis and about 20 others including the occupants of the cars ahead of the press car.

Others in the press car:

Malcolm Kilduff (WH Assistant Press Secretary): "There was a longer
     pause between the first and the second than there was between
     the second and the third." (Andrew won't like that)

Why would you say that!?  That is what I have been saying the shot pattern was!

You left out the best part.  Kilduff continued:
HARTIGAN: So you're of the school of thought that you heard three shots.
KILDUFF: Oh, I know I heard three shots. Nobody's going to tell me I didn't hear three shots. I mean I know that there was a long pause because there was that little interchange of conversation between Merriman Smith and me between the first and the second shot. Then the third shot got off very quickly.

What is somewhat remarkable is that Kilduff did not give that statement to the WC or the FBI or the Dallas Sheriff.  He gave it in 1976 in an interview as part of an oral history project.  Those last two shots being closer together remained in his memory for 13 years.  He was in the same car as Jackson [correction: Jackson was in the second press car two cars behind Kilduff] and Jackson did give a statement on 22Nov63 to the FBI and Jackson also mentioned the last two shots being in rapid succession. He still maintains that the last two were closer together and he is now 86 years old.   I am pretty sure that Kilduff would not agree that 5 seconds between the last two shots = third shot getting off very quickly.

[Charles Collins]

One does not have to guess. The first press car was the car immediately behind the Cabell car. The Cabell car was immediately behind the VP Security car.  The VP Security car was immediately behind the VP car.  We can see that the VP car at z160 is pointing north of a line from Zapruder to the corner so it is about half way into the turn.  The Cabell car has yet to enter the intersection.  So the first press car is still about 2 car lengths from entering the intersection.  That is about 30 feet. Moving at about 1 foot per frame, maybe a bit slower going through the intersection, that would put the first press car just entering the intersection at z190 which correlates to the first shot.  That fits Betzner, Willis and about 20 others including the occupants of the cars ahead of the press car.
Why would you say that!?  That is what I have been saying the shot pattern was!

You left out the best part.  Kilduff continued:
HARTIGAN: So you're of the school of thought that you heard three shots.
KILDUFF: Oh, I know I heard three shots. Nobody's going to tell me I didn't hear three shots. I mean I know that there was a long pause because there was that little interchange of conversation between Merriman Smith and me between the first and the second shot. Then the third shot got off very quickly.

What is somewhat remarkable is that Kilduff did not give that statement to the WC or the FBI or the Dallas Sheriff.  He gave it in 1976 in an interview as part of an oral history project.  Those last two shots being closer together remained in his memory for 13 years.  He was in the same car as Jackson and Jackson did give a statement on 22Nov63 to the FBI and Jackson also mentioned the last two shots being in rapid succession. He still maintains that the last two were closer together and he is now 86 years old.   I am pretty sure that Kilduff would not agree that 5 seconds between the last two shots = third shot getting off very quickly.

He was in the same car as Jackson...

I believe that Bob Jackson was three cars behind Kilduff. Here is what Bob Baskin wrote:

“Malcolm Kilduff, the assistant White House press secretary, rode in the front seat of the pool car with Merriman Smith between him and a Department of Public Safety driver. I was on the left in the rear seat with Jack Bell between me and Bob Clark.

[Charles Collins]

What is this "visual evidence" of a missed shot?
A missed first shot, no less?

They are referred to in the threads that I referenced a few posts ago in this thread. You can find the links to these other threads (Victoria Adams’ view from the fourth floor window” and “Why the first shot missed”) in that post. Off the top of my head, some of them include:

The traffic cop Harkness suddenly turning away from his assigned duty at the intersection of Main and Houston and walking in the direction of the limo on Elm Street with a concerned look on his face (as seen in the Hughes film).

The head turns and looks of concern by the limo occupants (as seen in the Zapruder film).

The sudden head jerk back towards the TSBD and simultaneous beginning of a slow to stop from running by Rosemary Willis (as seen on the Zapruder film).

The sudden jerk upwards and then stop of the operating movie camera being held by Dorman.

The end of Tina Towners film segment of the limo with the first shot happening  just after she stopped it (per Tina Towner).

The out of focus photo by Phil Willis (#4). I believe that the reason it is out of focus is that the first shot caused him to inadvertently press the shutter button before he was completely ready to shoot. His later testimony at the Clay Shaw trial states that one of his photos was taken as a result of the first shot. I believe that by then he realized that his fifth photo wasn’t in sync with any shots. And the forth photo is the only one of his photos that is that much out of focus.

Other evidence (that we need to use a 3-D computer model or map of Dealey Plaza to obtain the visual aspects) includes Howard Brennan’s account in his 11/22/63 affidavit regarding JFK lining up with the last windows of the TSBD from Brennan’s position when the first shot rang out. And Victoria Adams’ account of the limo going behind the tree from her position as the first shot sounded.

All of the above items occurred right around the time of Z133. I believe that the sound of the first shot is the reason.

[Andrew Mason]

He was in the same car as Jackson...

I believe that Bob Jackson was three cars behind Kilduff. Here is what Bob Baskin wrote:

“Malcolm Kilduff, the assistant White House press secretary, rode in the front seat of the pool car with Merriman Smith between him and a Department of Public Safety driver. I was on the left in the rear seat with Jack Bell between me and Bob Clark.

I think you are right. Jackson was not in the same car as Merriman Smith. He was in the car immediately behind the first open press convertible.  He said he was in the eighth car in the motorcade but I think he was not counting the lead Sheriff's car.  The Cabell car was #6, the White House pool car was #7, then there were two open press cars and Jackson was in the second so that would be #9.  It is a bit odd that no one in the pool car gave statements or testified before the WC.

[Andrew Mason]

What is this "visual evidence" of a missed shot?
A missed first shot, no less?

There is no evidence, let alone visual evidence, of a missed shot.  According to the current SBT (as opposed to the WC SBT), Oswald missed the entire limo on the first and closest shot. Yet no one could find evidence of anything it hit. And no one noticed that JFK kept smiling and waving for 2-3 seconds afterward. And over 20 witnesses mistakenly recalled him reacting immediately by moving/leaning left, or ducking or clutching his chest/neck after the first shot.  And Betzner was mistaken that his z186 photo was taken just before the first shot.  And Croft was mistaken that his z163 photo was taken before the first shot and he had enough time to wind his camera and click the shutter at the time of the first shot. And over 40 witnesses mistakenly recalled that the last two shots were in rapid succession.

[Charles Collins]

There is no evidence, let alone visual evidence, of a missed shot.  According to the current SBT (as opposed to the WC SBT), Oswald missed the entire limo on the first and closest shot. Yet no one could find evidence of anything it hit. And no one noticed that JFK kept smiling and waving for 2-3 seconds afterward. And over 20 witnesses mistakenly recalled him reacting immediately by moving/leaning left, or ducking or clutching his chest/neck after the first shot.  And Betzner was mistaken that his z186 photo was taken just before the first shot.  And Croft was mistaken that his z163 photo was taken before the first shot and he had enough time to wind his camera and click the shutter at the time of the first shot. And over 40 witnesses mistakenly recalled that the last two shots were in rapid succession.

There is no evidence, let alone visual evidence, of a missed shot.

The apparent bullet marks on and around the manhole cover on the south side of Elm Street. The apparent bullet mark on the curb near Tague on Main Street. The scratch on Tague’s face apparently from a fragment of bullet or concrete. All of these are evidence of a missed shot. If all three shots hit their target as you proclaim, what the heck do you propose  caused these marks?

[Charles Collins]

Dorman does that while the limousine is on Houston. She's not using the viewfinder but holding the camera at chest level.

Quite the take on the Willis photos. Shoehorn any evidence into a preconceived theory. That's what Mason does.

    "I proceeded to watch the President's car as it turned left at the
     corner where I was and about 50 yards from the intersection of
     Elm and Houston and to a point I would say the President's back
     was in line with the last windows I have previously described I
     heard what I thought was a back fire."

By "last windows", Brennan didn't mean the SW set of windows. He meant "the last windows I had previously described" meaning the SE windows. And I believe Brennan was describing the President's back facing squarely back towards the SE windows.This doesn't happen in the Z130s but later.

Maybe you can sell Mason on it.

Dorman does that while the limousine is on Houston. She's not using the viewfinder but holding the camera at chest level.

I am discussing the end of the Dorman segment just before Zapruder 133. And I am aware of how Dorman was using the camera. She was relatively close to the rifle (compared to most other witnesses) and I believe the unexpected sudden loud sound would have startled her enough to cause the sudden jerk and stop.

By "last windows", Brennan didn't mean the SW set of windows. He meant "the last windows I had previously described" meaning the SE windows. And I believe Brennan was describing the President's back facing squarely back towards the SE windows.This doesn't happen in the Z130s but later.

You are doing exactly what you accuse Mason and I of doing. In this case, a shoehorn ain’t going to do it though. Why do you think Brennan would be describing this from any viewpoint other than his own. To imagine your idea Brennan would need to mentally place himself in the middle of Elm Street. This idea is ridiculous. But it fits your narrative, so I suppose that it makes sense to you.

[Charles Collins]

I think you are right. Jackson was not in the same car as Merriman Smith. He was in the car immediately behind the first open press convertible.  He said he was in the eighth car in the motorcade but I think he was not counting the lead Sheriff's car.  The Cabell car was #6, the White House pool car was #7, then there were two open press cars and Jackson was in the second so that would be #9.  It is a bit odd that no one in the pool car gave statements or testified before the WC.

Bob Jackson was in the right rear of the third open press convertible. I believe that Tom Dillard was right in front of him in the front seat of the same car. And it was Bob Jackson’s description that helped Dillard aim his camera at the correct window just seconds after the shots. They would have been in car #10 in the diagram.