The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

The zfilm is hardly "unequivocal" for anything except the head shot and establishing the "after bracket" of the neck wound.

The Z-film is absolutely unequivocal about the shot at z270.
It does not happen.
This is unequivocally shown in the Z-film.
That his wrist/hand does not move in any meaningful way demonstrates, unequivocally, a bullet has not shattered JBC's radius forcefully enough to leave fragments in the wrist and have a fragment blow through the wrist and exit near the crease of the wrist. There can be no doubt whatsoever that such a forceful blow would result in an obvious movement, it's basic physics - Newton's laws of motion, conservation of momentum etc.
I ask anyone reading this post to closely study the images below and ask themselves if it is possible, even given the most fantastical assumptions, that these images represent a bullet exploding out of JBC's chest and shattering his radius leaving fragments embedded in his wrist.



Here is a close up of the same clip:



This is a pic of the moment just after the proposed wrist strike:



Is there anything in this images that even remotely hints at such a powerful strike?
The answer is No.
You're only recourse is to pretend everyone is really stupid and you can just gloss over this irrefutable evidence that completely undermines the model you are presenting.
That won't be happening.

[Dan O'meara]

Obviously we cannot see the bullets flying through the air on the Z-film but there should still be physical evidence of bullet strikes - reactions to "mechanical" impacts, reflex reactions to being hit etc. In my last post I show how the Z-film can be used to refute where a bullet strike is thought to happen but doesn't. This begs the question  - if there is such a forceful blow to the wrist, is it shown in the Z-film?
I believe it is.

Earlier in this thread I have presented a series of arguments related to the complex of sudden, extreme and rapid reactions both JFK and JBC undergo at the same time. From the arguments concerning reflex reactions observed and the time it takes for such reactions to occur I conclude the first shot passed through both men at z223. This very specific frame is chosen because of an observation concerning the difference between this frame and the previous frame, z222. This observation was first pointed out to me by fellow forum member Brian Roselle.

The Gif below is lifted from "The Little JFK Page on the Prairie" [http://users.skynet.be/mar/Eng/SBT/223-226-eng.htm#sommet]
It shows z222 and z223. I would like to draw attention to the shirt cuff of JBC. It can be seen in z222, just above the limo door. In z223 it suddenly disappears:



There are a few things I would like to mention concerning what I believe these images represent. Firstly notice JBC's position - he is sat upright in his seat, he is looking to his right and the top of his body is turned slightly to the right. When we watch the Z-film we see JBC do a quick turn to the left in the z160's then turn back to his right 'z167. He seems to stay in this position as he passes behind the Stemmons sign. Below is z193, it is from the clearest frame just before JBC passes behind the sign (although the other frames are more blurred, none contradict this basic picture):



It appears to me that once JBC turns back to his right (@z167), he stays in this same upright position, looking to his right. His posture and general demeanour seem the same before he passes behind the sign and after he emerges from behind it. I believe this is important because for this duration of the Z-film, Z167-z223, JBC is in this seemingly relaxed, upright posture. From z223 onwards JBC embarks on a series of incredibly rapid and extreme movements that could hardly be greater in contrast to this relaxed, upright posture.
This brings me to a second point - these two frames and what they represent should not be taken in isolation. They are the beginning of a series of extreme and rapid reactions and should be seen as part of this complex of reactions.
In z222 we can see JBC's right shirt cuff. If a bullet shatters his wrist at z223 this shirt cuff should move very rapidly as his wrist is blown apart.
The bullet passes through the right side of his jacket so we should expect to see some kind of reaction there.
The bullet crushes JBC's rib as it passes through his chest, we should expect to see an instantaneous "mechanical" reaction as these forces knock his body about.
Returning to the above Gif. In it we see JBC's shirt cuff disappearing beneath the top of the limo door. It may not seem much but this action occurs in less than 55 milliseconds. To put that in context - it takes about 100 miliiseconds to blink. This is just over half the time it takes to blink. It is an incredibly rapid movement, a mind-bogglingly quick movement and it must be remembered JBC was just sitting in an upright, relaxed position for some time before this moment. All of a sudden he makes this insanely quick movement.
The reason for this movement is the bullet striking his wrist. That is why, in z223, JBC still gives off a generally calm demeanour, yet his hand is making this rapid movement, quicker than  the blink of an eye. The reason JBC seems so calm is that he simply hasn't had enough time to react to being shot.
It will also be noted that JBC's left shoulder rises to a small degree. Again, this may not seem much but it is, in fact, an unbelievably rapid movement and is something we should expect to see. The bullet is causing a "mechanical" reaction. When two objects collide there is an instantaneous mechanical reaction, this is what is happening to JBC. The bullet is physically moving his body.



This Gif represents the moment JFK and JBC are shot through with the first bullet.

[Andrew Mason]

The Z-film is absolutely unequivocal about the shot at z270.
It does not happen.
This is unequivocally shown in the Z-film.

If it was unequivocal you would not have to explain:

1. why we see JBC move the way he does beginning at z272.  What causes him to move forward from z272 - z280 before he falls back onto Nellie?  You seem to be ignoring that. 
2. why we see the hand movement between z271-272.  What causes the appearance of the hand and hat to change between z271 and z272?  You say that change is not meaningful. Why?  How is the hand going to move if the arm is pressed against the chest with the dorsal side of the wrist facing into the chest and the elbow pressed into the seat? 
3. why the sunvisor moves from z271-272.  What causes the sunvisor over Greer to move forward from z271-272?  The wind is certainly not moving it forward.  Granted it is a small movement but it is visible.
4. why the JFK hair movement occurs at z273-276. What causes JFK's hair to fly up from z273 to z276, just as Hickey described? Hickey said the second shot did not appear to hit JFK but just caused his hair to fly up.
5. why the zfilm shows Greer turning rearward around z279-z280 if nothing had just happened. And perhaps you could explain why Greer said he turned immediately after the second shot if it was unequivocally not the case.

That his wrist/hand does not move in any meaningful way demonstrates, unequivocally, a bullet has not shattered JBC's radius forcefully enough to leave fragments in the wrist and have a fragment blow through the wrist and exit near the crease of the wrist. There can be no doubt whatsoever that such a forceful blow would result in an obvious movement, it's basic physics - Newton's laws of motion, conservation of momentum etc.

If that really was the case, you will no doubt be able to explain, using physics, the following.
 
1.  How much force does a partially spent bullet apply to the radius when it strikes the radius on an angle and fragments continue moving forward striking the windshield with enough force to crack the windshield, dent the metal frame and at least one travel 150 feet farther to strike the curb near Tague and deflect up and cut his cheek.
2. How much force is required to move a visible amount an arm that is pinned between JBC's chest and seat back?
3. What determines a visible amount of movement in the zfilm?

If you cannot show unequivocally that such movement would be visible in the zfilm, then it is not unequivocal.

I ask anyone reading this post to closely study the images below and ask themselves if it is possible, even given the most fantastical assumptions, that these images represent a bullet exploding out of JBC's chest and shattering his radius leaving fragments embedded in his wrist.

I could use the same kind of argument to "prove" that there is no SBT shot at z223 because the laws of physics do not permit the bullet, after having exploded out of JBC's chest, to shatter his radius and not deflect away from the point of contact.  The bullet would have to strike the radius and deflect leftward but the impact was on the back of the wrist on the distal side of the radius (the side nearest the ulna bone).  The main difference is that you are arguing about the magnitude of the force of impact.  I am saying that the direction of the force is wrong at z223.  In your case, you have yet to show that the magnitude of the force would be great enough to move the wrist.  In my case, it is a physical principle that is at issue:  a bullet deflects away from, not toward, the point of contact.

If you would like a bit of help to get you started:

• Speed of bullet exiting chest:  400 m/sec. (original speed at impact on back: 560 m/sec or 1825 fps (muzzle speed of 2100 less 275 fps).
• Speed of bullet exiting wrist after fracturing radius: 200 m/sec. 
• Momentum transferred to wrist = mΔv = .01 x 200 = 2 kg m/sec = 2 N. sec. 

Therefore, a contrary force of 20 Newtons applied for 1/10th of a second will stop that momentum. A 20 N force is the weight of 2 kg or 5 pounds. I would suggest that the force applied to the arm by the pinning of the arm between the seat back and the chest is at least 5 pounds. The effect of the arm being pressed to the chest will be that the impact on the chest and wrist will cause the whole upper body to move, which is what we see from z271-278 until Nellie pulls JBC back on top of her.

[Dan O'meara]

If it was unequivocal you would not have to explain:

1. why we see JBC move the way he does beginning at z272.  What causes him to move forward from z272 - z280 before he falls back onto Nellie?  You seem to be ignoring that. 

I wanted to move on to something else but, out of interest, let's deal with your so-called objections one by one.
I find this one quite interesting as you've mentioned it before and I have dealt with it although you appear to have ignored me.
You say that from z272 - z280 JBC is moving forward before he collapses backwards into Nellie's arms. You've described this as "sailing forward".
Let's take a fixed point. For arguments sake let's say the outer part of Jackie's left arm (there is some kind of object on the inside of the limo near Jackie's arm we could use, but it doesn't really matter as what I'm going to point out is very obvious). As we watch the Z-film roll in the clip below we can see the gap between JBC and whatever fixed point we use increases from frame to frame indicating JBC is moving backwards during these frames and not forwards as you insist:



In frames z272-280 JBC is clearly moving backwards but you keep insisting he is moving forwards. I'm interested to hear your explanation for this observation.

[Andrew Mason]

I wanted to move on to something else but, out of interest, let's deal with your so-called objections one by one.
I find this one quite interesting as you've mentioned it before and I have dealt with it although you appear to have ignored me.
You say that from z272 - z280 JBC is moving forward before he collapses backwards into Nellie's arms. You've described this as "sailing forward".
Let's take a fixed point. For arguments sake let's say the outer part of Jackie's left arm (there is some kind of object on the inside of the limo near Jackie's arm we could use, but it doesn't really matter as what I'm going to point out is very obvious). As we watch the Z-film roll in the clip below we can see the gap between JBC and whatever fixed point we use increases from frame to frame indicating JBC is moving backwards during these frames and not forwards as you insist:


In frames z272-280 JBC is clearly moving backwards but you keep insisting he is moving forwards. I'm interested to hear your explanation for this observation.

By "forward" I mean in the direction the car is moving. 

The first part of this movement is z271-278 and JBC moves toward the front of the car and maybe a bit toward his back (car left) but not very much. It is sudden uniform motion, at least until z277 as you can see his position relative to the car and other occupants is the only position that changes.  You can see that the height of his head relative to everything in the car remains the same. 

Then in the second part (after 2 sec. pause at z278 until z287) he falls back onto Nellie and you can see his head go down:

[Jerry Organ]

By "forward" I mean in the direction the car is moving. 

The first part of this movement is z271-278 and JBC moves toward the front of the car and maybe a bit toward his back (car left) but not very much. It is sudden uniform motion, at least until z277 as you can see his position relative to the car and other occupants is the only position that changes.  You can see that the height of his head relative to everything in the car remains the same. 

Doesn't Connally fall away from the car rail (and towards Nellie) before Z271?



If Connally is just "sailing forward", then one wouldn't expect to see increasing amounts of his front and hat. Or the top of his head to rise.

In the clip above, Kennedy's head and torso roll forward, and the amount of his body seen above the car rail doesn't change, whereas Connally's does.

In the first clear frames from the Muchmore film showing the Governor, we can see the space between him and Mrs. Kennedy doesn't change much and any movement appears to be towards Nellie.


( Captures from the Ungar JFK Assassination Gallery )

Then in the second part (after 2 sec. pause at z278 until z287) he falls back onto Nellie and you can see his head go down:

The following Muchmore frames shows just Connally's head moving towards Nellie. His right shoulder is stable. So by Z285, Connally's torso has fallen back towards Nellie; just his head falls towards her after that.

[Andrew Mason]

Doesn't Connally fall away from the car rail (and towards Nellie) before Z271?

Yes he does.  Up to about z267 he is leaning to the car right as he is turned toward the rear.

If Connally is just "sailing forward", then one wouldn't expect to see increasing amounts of his front and hat. Or the top of his head to rise.

Where do you see that from z271 to z278?:

The following Muchmore frames shows just Connally's head moving towards Nellie. His right shoulder is stable. So by Z285, Connally's torso has fallen back towards Nellie; just his head falls towards her after that.

He falls backward from z278 to z285 onto Nellie.  That's what my last GIF showed.  It is the forward movement from z271-278 that is odd.

[Jerry Organ]

Yes he does.  Up to about z267 he is leaning to the car right as he is turned toward the rear.

Where do you see that from z271 to z278?:

It's a continuation of the same motion seen in this clip.



We don't see his head go higher after this clip because he's arriving at full vertical.

He falls backward from z278 to z285 onto Nellie.  That's what my last GIF showed.

The Muchmore frames show just his head falling towards Nellie. His right shoulder level is stable, meaning his body has reached her.

It is the forward movement from z271-278 that is odd.

If Connally "sailed forward" an appreciable amount in that clip, his head should have ended up on Nellie's left shoulder (the shoulder nearer to Greer). In Z300, Nellie has yet to fully lean forward; the Governor and her are lined up, far from him being six inches forward of her.



Connally's neck level relative to points in the car doesn't change after Z280. That means only his head moves backward.