Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 160586 times)

Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #744 on: February 22, 2021, 01:48:29 PM »
Advertisement
In CT Wonderland, nothing is knowable, nothing is provable, and nothing is believable.



Explain this photo without acting dumb or sounding like one of the Tin Foil Brigade.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #744 on: February 22, 2021, 01:48:29 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #745 on: February 22, 2021, 04:12:11 PM »
When I started examining the Z-film the only confirmation bias I had was that the "back and to the left" motion of JFK proved there was a shot from the front. Everything else, all the arguments I've presented in this thread were based on an impartial look at the evidence.
That's how I came up with the model I'm presenting here - a first shot that passes through both JFK and JBC at z223.
Once I'd established the model, then the confirmation bias kicked in.
In the course of my examination I came across something that undermined my 'core belief' that JFK was shot from the front.
I followed that evidence and, when I was convinced the headshot came from behind, I dropped that belief.
I've yet to come across any argument or evidence that I'm wrong about the first shot.
If I do I'll drop that as well.
Confirmation bias or no confirmation bias.

You don't need to interpret the Z Film. The eyewitnesses state exactly where the first shot happened. The Chisms state it happened right before the car gets to them.

John Chism :  "And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved at the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot,"

Jean Newman states it happened right after it passed her.

Jean Newman : "The motorcade had just passed me when I heard that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report"

Calvery, Hicks, and Westbrook state it happened directly in front of them.

Gloria Calvery : "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was Standing when I heard the first shot."

 Karan Hicks : "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion. I did not immediately recognize this sound as a gunshot"

Karen Westbrook :  "The car he was in was almost directly  in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion. I did not immediately recognize this sound as a gun shot ."


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #746 on: February 22, 2021, 05:43:25 PM »
You don't need to interpret the Z Film. The eyewitnesses state exactly where the first shot happened. The Chisms state it happened right before the car gets to them.

John Chism :  "And just as he got just about in front of me, he turned and waved at the crowd on this side of the street, the right side; at this point I heard what sounded like one shot,"

Jean Newman states it happened right after it passed her.

Jean Newman : "The motorcade had just passed me when I heard that I thought was a firecracker at first, and the President had just passed me, because after he had just passed, there was a loud report"

Calvery, Hicks, and Westbrook state it happened directly in front of them.

Gloria Calvery : "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was Standing when I heard the first shot."

 Karan Hicks : "The car he was in was almost directly in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion. I did not immediately recognize this sound as a gunshot"

Karen Westbrook :  "The car he was in was almost directly  in front of where I was standing when I heard the first explosion. I did not immediately recognize this sound as a gun shot ."

I agree, but there are witnesses who seem to state that the shot occurred earlier.
The contradictory nature of eye-witness testimony can be used to support almost any theory/model.
Because there are so many witnesses there is an inevitable variance in the witness accounts as we are dealing with human memory which, as is well documented, isn't a perfect recording system.
On top of this is the possibility to interpret an eye-witness account in many different ways if it is not specific.
The Z-film is the "ultimate eye-witness" in a way. It can be viewed over and over again, paused, slowed down, zoomed in etc.
This doesn't make it infallible because interpreting these images, once again, has the human factor involved.
I view the Z-film as 'primary' evidence and eye-witness accounts as 'secondary', if the eye-witness testimony does not support what we are seeing in the Z-film I discard it and not the other way round.

The greatest mystery to me is that there is any argument over JFK and JBC being shot through at the same time.
From the moment I started examining the Z-film it was absolutely clear it showed both men having extreme reactions at exactly the same moment to what I assume is a shot. I can't get over how obvious it is, and I still can't.

By the same token, I felt the same way about JFK's "back and to the left" motion until I changed my mind.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #746 on: February 22, 2021, 05:43:25 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6513
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #747 on: February 22, 2021, 05:58:18 PM »


Explain this photo without acting dumb or sounding like one of the Tin Foil Brigade.

Ask me nicely

Offline John Iacoletti

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10815
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #748 on: February 22, 2021, 06:16:56 PM »
Explain this photo without acting dumb or sounding like one of the Tin Foil Brigade.

Chapman is only here to troll the forum with his self-declared "clever, cut-to-the-quick insights".

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #748 on: February 22, 2021, 06:16:56 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3163
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #749 on: February 22, 2021, 06:45:46 PM »
Ask me nicely

 ;D

Pretty please Bill.
What are your thoughts on the photo in question?

Online Richard Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5293
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #750 on: February 22, 2021, 08:06:36 PM »
In CT Wonderland, nothing is knowable, nothing is provable, and nothing is believable.

Very true.  The contrarian motto is that because everything cannot be known with absolute certainty, nothing can ever be proven.  As a result, there must be doubt regarding any fact in human history because it is possible to dream up an alternative scenario (no matter how baseless or improbable the alternative).  There are no time machines to disprove these improbable alternatives to their subjective satisfaction.  Thus, we must forever reside in a state of uncertainty known as the rabbit hole.  Repeat endless.  When all else fails put a word in quotation marks to suggest fake "doubt." 
« Last Edit: February 22, 2021, 08:07:14 PM by Richard Smith »

Offline Jack Nessan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
Re: The First Shot
« Reply #751 on: February 22, 2021, 08:13:49 PM »
I agree, but there are witnesses who seem to state that the shot occurred earlier.
The contradictory nature of eye-witness testimony can be used to support almost any theory/model.
Because there are so many witnesses there is an inevitable variance in the witness accounts as we are dealing with human memory which, as is well documented, isn't a perfect recording system.
On top of this is the possibility to interpret an eye-witness account in many different ways if it is not specific.
The Z-film is the "ultimate eye-witness" in a way. It can be viewed over and over again, paused, slowed down, zoomed in etc.
This doesn't make it infallible because interpreting these images, once again, has the human factor involved.
I view the Z-film as 'primary' evidence and eye-witness accounts as 'secondary', if the eye-witness testimony does not support what we are seeing in the Z-film I discard it and not the other way round.

The greatest mystery to me is that there is any argument over JFK and JBC being shot through at the same time.
From the moment I started examining the Z-film it was absolutely clear it showed both men having extreme reactions at exactly the same moment to what I assume is a shot. I can't get over how obvious it is, and I still can't.

By the same token, I felt the same way about JFK's "back and to the left" motion until I changed my mind.

Agreed, I don't see the doubt about one bullet striking both JFK and JBC. Bill Newman stated he could not tell which man was hit first by the first shot in the WFAA interview.

The eyewitnesses are consistent that the first shot stuck JFK. No one was looking at JBC. Mary Woodward gives a good example by referencing the shot never took place until after JFK faced forward, which does not happen until Z207. The earwitnesses are all over the board and in general describe a shooting sequence that is not representative of the cycle time of the carcano.

An early missed shot is nothing more than an attempt to compensate for the 2.3 second cycle time of the carcano by stretching out the shooting time.
-----------------------------
The HSCA Analysis of the photos concluded The bullet leaving jFK's throat would have to strike JBC. JFK's position in the car ovr shadows JBC's back
Mr. SAWYER. If we were to start at the other end then and assume that a bullet were fired at the approximate time we have determined from the sixth floor of the depository, would it have of necessity given the wounds in the President, would it of necessity, based on what you have determined as to locations somewhat, also have hit Governor Connally?
Mr. CANNING. The bullet would have had to have been substantially deflected by passing through the President in order to miss the Governor. It seems almost inevitable that the Governor would be hit with the alinements that we have found.
Mr. SAWYER. So that if we assume, as apparently is the fact, that this jacketed bullet did not hit anything solid in the way of bone in the President but only traversed the soft tissue of the neck, and presuming the approximate location of the limousine at the time and the posture as nearly as can be determined of the President at that time, that in your view then, absent a deflection of that bullet, it could not have missed Governor Connally.
Mr. CANNING. That is my view, yes.
Mr. SAWYER. I think that is all. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The First Shot
« Reply #751 on: February 22, 2021, 08:13:49 PM »