The First Shot

[Jack Nessan]

Blah, Blah, Blah, same old wore out information that absolutely leads nowhere.

Quite a discussion. Neither of you can even provide any evidence at all that there ever was a third shot. Let alone when this phantom shot occurred.   

All the evidence indicates there were only two shots. Eyewitness testimony is all about just two shots. The physical evidence is all about two shots. Both the WC and HSCA state the witnesses were influenced by the media into inflating the number of shots. You can't place the bullet wound in JBC's back unless the bullet first passes through JFK's neck.

It does not take much imagination to understand the assassination when you realize the answer is there were only two shots fired.                                             

[Andrew Mason]

Blah, Blah, Blah, same old wore out information that absolutely leads nowhere.

Quite a discussion. Neither of you can even provide any evidence at all that there ever was a third shot. Let alone when this phantom shot occurred.   

All the evidence indicates there were only two shots. Eyewitness testimony is all about just two shots. The physical evidence is all about two shots. Both the WC and HSCA state the witnesses were influenced by the media into inflating the number of shots. You can't place the bullet wound in JBC's back unless the bullet first passes through JFK's neck.

It does not take much imagination to understand the assassination when you realize the answer is there were only two shots fired.                                             

[John Iacoletti]

Like Dan can hear Connally screaming “no, no, no” in the Z film. 

[Sean Kneringer]

The Connally Head Swing!
Was that a 1960's dance craze?
Please enlighten us - when was the Connally Head Swing?

Z157 to Z170

Lemme guess: you think the throat shot was the first shot.

[Zeon Mason]

Looking at Z-223 to Z224 frames , the right elbow of JFK appears to me to BEGIN to move from a comfortable rest position at Z223 to START an upward movement at Z224.

There might be some more analytical measuring methods that already exist , in videos of other threads to show just how closely in sync is the START  of the  motion of JFK s right elbow with the START of Connallys right shoulder beginning to turn counterclockwise , an effect caused by angular momentum imparted by the bullet impact to Connelly right side.

So it seems improbable that the shot was fired earlier than at z223  and the  body movements in both men are due to delayed nervous system response. The reason being , that it violates a  basic physics principle of one mass impacting another mass, which results in immediate transfer of momentum from one to the other.

[Andrew Mason]

Looking at Z-223 to Z224 frames , the right elbow of JFK appears to me to BEGIN to move from a comfortable rest position at Z223 to START an upward movement at Z224.

There might be some more analytical measuring methods that already exist , in videos of other threads to show just how closely in sync is the START  of the  motion of JFK s right elbow with the START of Connallys right shoulder beginning to turn counterclockwise , an effect caused by angular momentum imparted by the bullet impact to Connelly right side.

So it seems improbable that the shot was fired earlier than at z223  and the  body movements in both men are due to delayed nervous system response. The reason being , that it violates a  basic physics principle of one mass impacting another mass, which results in immediate transfer of momentum from one to the other.

There is, of course, another explanation to what is seen: what JBC and Nellie said he did after the first shot.  He said he turned in response to hearing the first shot.  His right hand is down by his right side holding the stetson.  In order to turn right, which he starts doing at about z231, he had to raise his right arm and lean forward so he had room to turn.

The momentum transfer begins on impact.  And the amount of momentum transferred depends on what happens during its transit through the body.  That depends on the magnitude of the force and duration of the force.  The bullet hit the fifth rib and bent it in (fracturing close to the spine) and then blasted through the rib driving bone shards down into the lower lobe of the right lung.  JBC described it as a forceful impact and Nellie observed him recoil from it and said she immediately reached out and pulled him down.  She is describing actions that we do not see until after z270 when she is looking right at her husband.

[Jerry Organ]

One does not have to rely on anything Rosemary said to use her sudden turn at z204-207 (which is the only time she is looking back at the TSBD) together with other evidence to see that the turn is in response to the first shot.

That other evidence includes her father's statement that his z202 photo was taken an instant after the first shot,

"Slide No. 4"     "When I took slide No. 4, the President was      smiling and waving and looking straight ahead,      and Mrs. Kennedy was likewise smiling and      facing more to my side of the street ...

"Slide No. 5"     "... When the first shot was fired, her head      seemed to just snap in that that direction,       and he more or less faced the other side      of the street and leaned forward"

     “Well, after having photographed the President on Main Street
     and on Houston Street and then in front of the Depository
     Building on Elm Street I cocked my camera for another picture
     and this loud shot went off and the first reaction was that could
     it be a crank or a firecracker but it was so loud and of such a
     sound it had to be rifle so I became alarmed. I was trying to take
     a picture at the moment and the reflex from the shot caused me
     to take one of these pictures.”

Above is what Phil Willis said at the Clay Shaw Trial, again hinting that the shot occurred just after taking Photo No. 4: "I cocked my camera for another picture and this loud shot went off". If Willis took the Photo as a "reflex" (ie: no time to think), why does he say that he had time to think after whether the shot was "a crank or a firecracker" and that this was why he "became alarmed"?

together with Jack Ready's statement that he turned immediately after hearing the first shot (he begins turning at z199). 

We both agree that the witnesses along Elm St. and those in the motorcade who relate their position at the time of the first shot, as well as Betzner and Croft, provide abundant evidence that the first shot was later than 186 and struck JFK.  We just disagree that there is evidence that he was hit as late as z222/223.

Jerry likes to explain away the evidence he does not like.  As far as the Secret Service agents reacting, one can see Jack Ready remove his right hand from the front handhold at z199 and begin his turn around that is complete by z256 as seen in the Altgens photo. He said he turned immediately in response to the first shot.

Agent John Ready stands camera-left and at front on the followup car's running board (He's just below the top sprocket hole and vertically above the characters "Z1")

In about one second Ready has made a rapid rightward head turn

    "I heard what appeared to be fire crackers going off from my position.
     I immediately turned to my right rear trying to locate the source but
     was not able to determine the exact location."    -- John Ready

Other rightward head turns in that same interval are the Connallys and Mrs. Kennedy. (Frames chosen for their clarity).

Andrew apparently agrees with me that not all the agents who claimed they reacted immediately on hearing the first shot did so, as least through actions visible on the Zapruder film.

[Mitch Todd]

[...]
So it seems improbable that the shot was fired earlier than at z223  and the  body movements in both men are due to delayed nervous system response. The reason being , that it violates a  basic physics principle of one mass impacting another mass, which results in immediate transfer of momentum from one to the other.

While conservation of momentum applies here, it's advisable to consider the magnitude of the resulting impact.

The Edgewood Arsenal guys figured that the bullet lost about 150m/s passing through Connally's body. A rifle bullet has a mass of the order of 10g = 0.010kg. The resulting momentum loss would be 150m/s * 0.01kg = 1.5kg*m/s

Connally's torso and head combined would have a mass on the order of 50kg. Since the post-impact momentum change of Connally's torso would be equal to the momentum lost by the bullet, the bullet would change the movement of Connally's upper body by 1.5kg*m/s / 50kg = 0.03 m/s. 0.03m/s is the same as 1.18 inches per second, or about 0.06 inches per zapruder frame. Connally is already moving around under his own power at the time, and the Zapruder film is grainy and lacks detailed resolution, so such a change of motion would be extraordinarily difficult to spot. Maybe even impossible under the circumstances.