The First Shot

[Zeon Mason]

Take a look at the Muchmore film ( similar perspective as Nix film) and explain why the men on the  GK steps are not reacting even after supposedly 2 loud shots have been fired and they were close enough to see JFK and JBC reactions at Z224.

The Newmans ( with small child) who eventually laid on the ground)  haven’t yet reacted. As close as they were , if 2 loud shots have been fired and the 1st one maybe was 3 seconds prior and the 2nd shot has hit JFK and he’s obviously slumping, seems like they would be diving to the ground earlier than waiting 4.8 secs longer until the Z313 shot.

Also of note is that DC man still had his hand raised and doesn’t drop it upon hearing the supposed 2nd shot at Z224 or seeing JFK hands going up to his throat and then slumping over.

There’s also a man near Altgens who does  not dive to the ground until after the Z313 shot.

Oddly Altgens himself doesn’t seem quite aware either even after the Z313 shot, but then he may have become aware at Z313 but chose to continue standing where he was bravely determined to try to take another photo.

Charles Brehm, should have surely been aware 2 rifle shots have been fired and seeing JFK react at Z224 but he doesn’t seem to be aware.

The SS agents are not looking back at TSBD  up till Z 207 and it’s not until about Z255 that SS agent Clint Hill finally seems aware and the other agents have turned their heads back towards the TSBD.

There just is not enough reaction by ANYONE in the groups of people in close vicinity to the JFK limo that really substantiate that a shot was fired prior to Z 224.

Except for the Z170 turn of Jackie’s head and JFKs head being turned sharply towards the right side of the limo, which if that was a loud rifle shot causing that, then why the other people are not apparently reacting in some way?

That Z170-Z207 section of the Z film kind of refutes Andrew Masons theory of a Z195- thru JFK neck shot, because JFKs head was turned so far to the right, that if a shot went thru the neck, then it likely would not have exited the center of trachea but rather to left of center.

Lack of reaction by observers nearby the JFK limo, continues between the gap from Z224-Z313. This indicates  that not only was there probably no loud shot prior to Z224, but that there was probably no 2nd shot that was spaced evenly between Z224 and Z313.

Even the JFK limo driver Greer, is not apparently cognizant that that JFK and JBC have been hit, because slowing down is an act of uncertainty rather than immediate recognition that 2 loud rifle shots have been fired.

[Andrew Mason]

That Z170-Z207 section of the Z film kind of refutes Andrew Masons theory of a Z195- thru JFK neck shot, because JFKs head was turned so far to the right, that if a shot went thru the neck, then it likely would not have exited the center of trachea but rather to left of center.

It did exit just left of centre. The shot passed through the upper back and exited through the trachea at the base of his neck making a hole on the left side of the knot. JFK turns his head right at z172-180 but his shoulders do not turn perceptibly.

[Zeon Mason]

@Andrew Mason

Your “left” of center is not my left of center if you are talking about the front of JFK ( face up autopsy photo)

My left of center was in relation to the back of JFK as the shot enters and I guess from the front it would be exiting RIGHT of center  of the neck ( so my mistake on description).

So the question still remains is JFKs  head was is turned so far to the right side of the limo, at Z195-207, then would not the bullet exit hole in the throat /neck  be  right of center as viewed from the front of JFK ( face up photo)?

Is there any existing photo of the actual exit hole in the throat before the tracheotomy incision obliterated it?

[Andrew Mason]

@Andrew Mason

Your “left” of center is not my left of center if you are talking about the front of JFK ( face up autopsy photo)

My left of center was in relation to the back of JFK as the shot enters and I guess from the front it would be exiting RIGHT of center  of the neck ( so my mistake on description).

So the question still remains is JFKs  head was is turned so far to the right side of the limo, at Z195-207, then would not the bullet exit hole in the throat /neck  be  right of center as viewed from the front of JFK ( face up photo)?

Is there any existing photo of the actual exit hole in the throat before the tracheotomy incision obliterated it?

Right and Left refer to JFK's right and left sides. According to the HSCA, the bullet entered about 45-50 mm right of JFK's spine travelling on a right to left angle.  It exited very close to the midline, just 2.5-5 mm to the left of JFK's centre.  See: the HSCA report and analysis, 6 HSCA 43

[Dan O'meara]

I've bumped this thread for anyone who is genuinely interested in when the first shot actually happened.
It is based on the presumption that there were three, clearly audible shots fired [as confirmed by over 160 "ear-witnesses"] and that these shots were fired from the Sniper's Nest on the 6th floor of the TSBD building.
As far as I'm aware, every single piece of evidence regarding this aspect of the case has been considered and it overwhelmingly demonstrates that the first shot occurred around z222 and that both JFK and Connally were shot through by the same bullet.
Note - I do not accept the Single Bullet Theory because I do not accept that CE399 was the bullet that passed through both men. However, once it is accepted that a bullet passed through JFK's neck with hardly any resistance it must be accepted that this bullet hit Connally. It could not miss Connally!
It's my personal opinion that this bullet shattered when it struck Connally's wrist.

And, just for full disclosure, I do not believe Oswald took the shots, although this has no bearing on the subject of this thread - when the first shot actually took place.
Many theories have been put forward for when this first shot occurred and all are refuted by the evidence presented in this thread. All except for a first shot around z222.

[Royell Storing]

I've bumped this thread for anyone who is genuinely interested in when the first shot actually happened.
It is based on the presumption that there were three, clearly audible shots fired [as confirmed by over 160 "ear-witnesses"] and that these shots were fired from the Sniper's Nest on the 6th floor of the TSBD building.
As far as I'm aware, every single piece of evidence regarding this aspect of the case has been considered and it overwhelmingly demonstrates that the first shot occurred around z222 and that both JFK and Connally were shot through by the same bullet.
Note - I do not accept the Single Bullet Theory because I do not accept that CE399 was the bullet that passed through both men. However, once it is accepted that a bullet passed through JFK's neck with hardly any resistance it must be accepted that this bullet hit Connally. It could not miss Connally!
It's my personal opinion that this bullet shattered when it struck Connally's wrist.

And, just for full disclosure, I do not believe Oswald took the shots, although this has no bearing on the subject of this thread - when the first shot actually took place.
Many theories have been put forward for when this first shot occurred and all are refuted by the evidence presented in this thread. All except for a first shot around z222.

    The highly respected Knott Lab Laser Scan Study has recently concluded that the SBT is IMPOSSIBLE.  CASE CLOSED!!

[Dan O'meara]

    The highly respected Knott Lab Laser Scan Study has recently concluded that the SBT is IMPOSSIBLE.  CASE CLOSED!!

Did they explain what happened to the bullet that passed through JFK?

Or are you still a fan of the gun-toting poodle theory?

[Royell Storing]

Did they explain what happened to the bullet that passed through JFK?

Or are you still a fan of the gun-toting poodle theory?

   How about you go to You Tube and take the time to view/hear the Knott Lab presentation?