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Author Topic: The First Shot  (Read 160393 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2020, 11:26:43 PM »
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Who’s TBC?

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2020, 11:26:43 PM »


Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2020, 11:36:55 PM »
Who’s TBC?
;D

My bad.
JBC - John Bowden Connally
not TBC - to be confirmed

Offline Dan O'meara

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2020, 02:58:35 AM »
Another strong indication that JBC was shot at the same time as JFK comes from a detail in the WC testimonies of Jackie Kennedy and Connally himself:

"Mrs. KENNEDY. You know, there is always noise in a motorcade and there are always motorcycles, besides us, a lot of them backfiring. So I was looking to the left. I guess there was a noise, but it didn't seem like any different noise really because there is so much noise, motorcycles and things. But then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." (my emphasis)

"[CONNALLY] I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all." Nellie, when she pulled me over into her lap----" (my emphasis)

JBC is clear, immediately after being shot he said "Oh, no, no, no". He implies he says this and "My God, they are going to kill us all" before collapsing into Nellie's lap. I believe the clip below shows JBC calling out immediately after being shot:


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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2020, 02:58:35 AM »


Offline Chris Bristow

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2020, 03:52:57 AM »
JBC has always been clear that he was hit and said "No no no" after he was turning back towards the front well after frame 223. Nellie said he was hit right AFTER saying "No no no". Here she is at 5:19.
Nellie always maintained  that JFK already had his hands to his throat when JBC did his turn around and before JBC was hit.
JBC said even after turning around he could not see JFK out of the corner of his eye. With JFK behind and slightly right tf JBC he should easily see him when his head turned only 90 degrees. The reason he couldn't see JFK could be because JFK was already leaning to his left.
JBC said he fell almost immediately back onto Nellie once shot but if he was hit at 223 he did a full turn around to look for JFK before falling back on Nellie.
 I think the clearest version of the events should come from Nellie as she was an observer that was never hit. Her description of seeing JFK raise his hands well before her husband was shot is very credible and matches JBC's version.
 
 

Offline Joffrey van de Wiel

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2020, 02:49:14 PM »
Rosemary Willis is seen running alongside the Presidential limousine in the Zapruder film and other assassination motion pictures. She is clearly visible in her white, hooded coat and a red skirt.

At circa Z-164-171 she starts to slow down, then she stops running and, simultaneous with her slowing/stopping, she slightly turns her level-facing head to end up looking towards the southeast corner of the Texas School Book Depository. Willis stated she stopped because she heard a loud noise that attracted her attention.

Immediately after President Kennedy is first hidden at frame 207 by the "Stemmons Freeway" traffic sign in the Zapruder film, Willis suddenly, and beginning at Z-214, snaps her head very rapidly 90 to 100 degrees westward (completely away from the Depository southeast corner) within 0.16 second to then face Abraham Zapruder and the grassy knoll by Z-217.

She told the HSCA in 1978 that she heard four loud noises and saw suspicious activity on the grassy knoll.


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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2020, 02:49:14 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2020, 03:25:53 PM »
JBC has always been clear that he was hit and said "No no no" after he was turning back towards the front well after frame 223. Nellie said he was hit right AFTER saying "No no no". Here she is at 5:19.

 Nellie always maintained  that JFK already had his hands to his throat when JBC did his turn around and before JBC was hit.
JBC said even after turning around he could not see JFK out of the corner of his eye. With JFK behind and slightly right tf JBC he should easily see him when his head turned only 90 degrees. The reason he couldn't see JFK could be because JFK was already leaning to his left.
JBC said he fell almost immediately back onto Nellie once shot but if he was hit at 223 he did a full turn around to look for JFK before falling back on Nellie.
 I think the clearest version of the events should come from Nellie as she was an observer that was never hit. Her description of seeing JFK raise his hands well before her husband was shot is very credible and matches JBC's version.

If Nellie was still looking towards the President at the moment of the second shot, and she thought Kennedy's hand-lowering (beginning in the Z190s) was the beginning of a reaction chain that led to his hands being at his chin, then she might assume he was struck on the first.

     Mr. DEVINE. Then what is the next sound you heard? You were
          still looking back at the President. Did you hear another sound?
     Mrs. CONNALLY. I heard the second shot; yes.
     Mr. DEVINE. The second shot. Were you looking back at that
          time or were you looking forward again?
     Mrs. CONNALLY. I don't know.

Kennedy works his hands towards his throat in about five frames, or 1/3 of a second from a hypothetical shot at Z223. Easy for that to morph into his sweeping hand-lowering. Kennedy may have also stopped smiling if he saw the Umbrella Man protester on the sidewalk as the car approached the Stemmons sign. If that happened, and Nellie noticed it, it could have influenced her belief he was hit by the first shot.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2020, 10:00:28 PM »
Or she might have believed he was hit by the first shot because he was hit by the first shot.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2020, 10:17:52 PM »
Or she might have believed he was hit by the first shot because he was hit by the first shot.

Or he might have only heard the first and third shots.

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Re: The First Shot
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2020, 10:17:52 PM »