The First Shot

[Dan O'meara]

There is a fundamental difference in the accounts of John and Nellie Connally concerning when JBC used the phrase "Oh, no, no, no".
JBC is clear it happened after he was shot and Nellie is equally clear it happened before he was shot.
In his WC testimony JBC states that he "said" this phrase, in the interview with Nellie Connally that Chris posted she implies he said it with no urgency, however, in her WC testimony Jackie Kennedy states that "...then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." She uses the word "yelling" three times and even says "Governor Connally screamed." In my view, the clip below shows Connally using the phrase immediately after being shot and it's more like Jackie Kennedy's version:



IMO this clip supports JBC's version of when he used the phrase - immediately after being shot. There are a few things about Nellie's version I have a problem with. In the interview Chris posted Nellie makes the following points:
She hears a noise that draws her attention
She turns in time to see JFK raise his hands to his throat
JBC turns to his right but can't see JFK
"Then he flipped to his left but he still couldn't see him"
Then he said "No, no, no"
Then, as he began to turn back he was shot.

Firstly, and most importantly, this account of events is absolutely NOT shown in the above clip.
Secondly, why would JBC be 'yelling' if he wasn't aware what was going on and hadn't been shot?
Thirdly, JBC immediately twists around in his seat offering no shot to his back from the TSBD.

Either JBC or Nellie is correct on this point, it can't be both. IMO the weight of the available (limited) evidence supports JBC.

[Chris Bristow]

There is a fundamental difference in the accounts of John and Nellie Connally concerning when JBC used the phrase "Oh, no, no, no".
JBC is clear it happened after he was shot and Nellie is equally clear it happened before he was shot.
In his WC testimony JBC states that he "said" this phrase, in the interview with Nellie Connally that Chris posted she implies he said it with no urgency, however, in her WC testimony Jackie Kennedy states that "...then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." She uses the word "yelling" three times and even says "Governor Connally screamed." In my view, the clip below shows Connally using the phrase immediately after being shot and it's more like Jackie Kennedy's version:



IMO this clip supports JBC's version of when he used the phrase - immediately after being shot. There are a few things about Nellie's version I have a problem with. In the interview Chris posted Nellie makes the following points:
She hears a noise that draws her attention
She turns in time to see JFK raise his hands to his throat
JBC turns to his right but can't see JFK
"Then he flipped to his left but he still couldn't see him"
Then he said "No, no, no"
Then, as he began to turn back he was shot.

Firstly, and most importantly, this account of events is absolutely NOT shown in the above clip.
Secondly, why would JBC be 'yelling' if he wasn't aware what was going on and hadn't been shot?
Thirdly, JBC immediately twists around in his seat offering no shot to his back from the TSBD.

Either JBC or Nellie is correct on this point, it can't be both. IMO the weight of the available (limited) evidence supports JBC.

Do you read lips? you must be guessing that is what he said. Maybe his open mouth is due to being shot or maybe he is grunting while he tries to spin around in that tiny seat with his knees sitting very high due to the low floor and maybe because his knees were touching or almost up against the seat in front of him. All we can do is speculate.
 I see his mouth is open far more than we do when talking and his mouth just stays agape. Also you don't generally see peoples mouth moving from this distance and imperfect resolution. We don't see him say 'they are gong to kill us all, and we don't see Jackie say anything. We don't see Kellerman say 'Get to Parkland either".   

[Chris Bristow]

Jerry Organ said:
Kennedy may have also stopped smiling if he saw the Umbrella Man protester on the sidewalk as the car approached the Stemmons sign. If that happened, and Nellie noticed it, it could have influenced her belief he was hit by the first shot."

Ok the idea that Nellie saw JFK frown at the umbrella man and that caused her to think he had been shot before 223? I don't want to be insulting but that is such a stretch i am really surprised you tried to float such a theory.

[Jack Nessan]

There is a fundamental difference in the accounts of John and Nellie Connally concerning when JBC used the phrase "Oh, no, no, no".
JBC is clear it happened after he was shot and Nellie is equally clear it happened before he was shot.
In his WC testimony JBC states that he "said" this phrase, in the interview with Nellie Connally that Chris posted she implies he said it with no urgency, however, in her WC testimony Jackie Kennedy states that "...then suddenly Governor Connally was yelling, "Oh, no, no, no." She uses the word "yelling" three times and even says "Governor Connally screamed." In my view, the clip below shows Connally using the phrase immediately after being shot and it's more like Jackie Kennedy's version:



IMO this clip supports JBC's version of when he used the phrase - immediately after being shot. There are a few things about Nellie's version I have a problem with. In the interview Chris posted Nellie makes the following points:
She hears a noise that draws her attention
She turns in time to see JFK raise his hands to his throat
JBC turns to his right but can't see JFK
"Then he flipped to his left but he still couldn't see him"
Then he said "No, no, no"
Then, as he began to turn back he was shot.

Firstly, and most importantly, this account of events is absolutely NOT shown in the above clip.
Secondly, why would JBC be 'yelling' if he wasn't aware what was going on and hadn't been shot?
Thirdly, JBC immediately twists around in his seat offering no shot to his back from the TSBD.

Either JBC or Nellie is correct on this point, it can't be both. IMO the weight of the available (limited) evidence supports JBC.

In Nellies WC Statement she references JBC cried out Oh No No No afte being struck the first shot. The same as what Jackie stated.

Mrs. CONNALLY. …….Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.

Mrs. CONNALLY. -----------------------------------As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no."

[Chris Bristow]

In an earlier post I said his mouth was open as he turned but I thought it was open much larger than a person talking and that his mouth remained agape. But now I notice that he might be opening and closing his mouth as he turned around to look for JFK. So maybe his mouth would be open that much if he was exclaiming" no no no". So it might be consistent with him saying no no no as he started to turn. That still leaves the possibility that he was shot while turning back after saying no no no. It also leaves the possibility that he was shot and then said no no no. It often happens that multiple Witnesses Place events in slightly different orders. Once we have contradictory testimony, it seems unlikely that we can draw much from these statements about when he said it. But both of them felt that he fell back onto Nellie almost immediately after being shot. That would be very inconsistent with him being shot at frame 223 because he did his full turn around after that and before he fell back on his wife. This is one of those subjects that we all have to throw out a bunch of conjecture on. So I don't think we're going to result in any solid proof either way, but it is interesting. I will always find it hard to believe that he gets hit and looks down to see a ton of blood. He assumes he has been mortally wounded and then decides to make that turn around to look for Kennedy. 4 in of missing rib and a sucking chest wound yet he twists around to the right. That's hard for me to digest. When he says he looked out of the corner of his eye and still couldn't see Kennedy how did that happen. The only thing I can think is he looked for Kennedy where he expected Kennedy to be. But if Kennedy had already lean way to the left that would explain why Connally would not see the person sitting right behind him when specifically looking for him.

[John Tonkovich]

In an earlier post I said his mouth was open as he turned but I thought it was open much larger than a person talking and that his mouth remained agape. But now I notice that he might be opening and closing his mouth as he turned around to look for JFK. So maybe his mouth would be open that much if he was exclaiming" no no no". So it might be consistent with him saying no no no as he started to turn. That still leaves the possibility that he was shot while turning back after saying no no no. It also leaves the possibility that he was shot and then said no no no. It often happens that multiple Witnesses Place events in slightly different orders. Once we have contradictory testimony, it seems unlikely that we can draw much from these statements about when he said it. But both of them felt that he fell back onto Nellie almost immediately after being shot. That would be very inconsistent with him being shot at frame 223 because he did his full turn around after that and before he fell back on his wife. This is one of those subjects that we all have to throw out a bunch of conjecture on. So I don't think we're going to result in any solid proof either way, but it is interesting. I will always find it hard to believe that he gets hit and looks down to see a ton of blood. He assumes he has been mortally wounded and then decides to make that turn around to look for Kennedy. 4 in of missing rib and a sucking chest wound yet he twists around to the right. That's hard for me to digest. When he says he looked out of the corner of his eye and still couldn't see Kennedy how did that happen. The only thing I can think is he looked for Kennedy where he expected Kennedy to be. But if Kennedy had already lean way to the left that would explain why Connally would not see the person sitting right behind him when specifically looking for him.

Yes, Mr Bristow.
Connaly's wound occured at Z312, while he was lying ( no pun intended) down across the jump seats.
His severe injury, had it occurred earlier, would have prevented him from doing much of anything, let alone staying upright and looking back and seeing Kennedy wounded. Which he did.
Yes, he was lying.
Once you understand that the WC report was designed to present a false narrative and look for the "why", then the logic of the WC is crystal clear.
What are the  "whys"?
Cover for SS failure? Yes. Clint Hill was the only SS agent to do his job. He was, after all, Jackie's " body man". Not, JFK's.
FBI failure to monitor Oswald? Yes. And remember, Hosty burned Oswald's note to him and the agency. Destroying evidence, lying about it. Bingo.
Protecting Connally's political future? Yes. The big tall strong Texan did nothing to protect Kennedy, instead working to save his own skin. Remember, Connally was LBJ''s protege, his "boy".
Covering up CIA knowledge of Mexico City and the impersonation of Oswald on the phone? Yes. CIA had actual tapes, which FBI also listened to, and both identified the speaker as not Oswald.  Tapes disappeared.

Just a short primer.

[Dan O'meara]

In an earlier post I said his mouth was open as he turned but I thought it was open much larger than a person talking and that his mouth remained agape. But now I notice that he might be opening and closing his mouth as he turned around to look for JFK. So maybe his mouth would be open that much if he was exclaiming" no no no". So it might be consistent with him saying no no no as he started to turn. That still leaves the possibility that he was shot while turning back after saying no no no. It also leaves the possibility that he was shot and then said no no no. It often happens that multiple Witnesses Place events in slightly different orders. Once we have contradictory testimony, it seems unlikely that we can draw much from these statements about when he said it. But both of them felt that he fell back onto Nellie almost immediately after being shot. That would be very inconsistent with him being shot at frame 223 because he did his full turn around after that and before he fell back on his wife. This is one of those subjects that we all have to throw out a bunch of conjecture on. So I don't think we're going to result in any solid proof either way, but it is interesting. I will always find it hard to believe that he gets hit and looks down to see a ton of blood. He assumes he has been mortally wounded and then decides to make that turn around to look for Kennedy. 4 in of missing rib and a sucking chest wound yet he twists around to the right. That's hard for me to digest. When he says he looked out of the corner of his eye and still couldn't see Kennedy how did that happen. The only thing I can think is he looked for Kennedy where he expected Kennedy to be. But if Kennedy had already lean way to the left that would explain why Connally would not see the person sitting right behind him when specifically looking for him.

Just to clarify - I'm not reading lips then putting this forward as an argument. I'm looking at the testimonial evidence and trying to decide how this is supported, if at all, by the video evidence. If Connally had turned but his mouth stayed shut the whole time in the video, I would not be making this point. To me it is clear his mouth is opening and closing in a way that does not contradict the testimonial evidence of Connally and Mrs Kennedy. I think the video evidence refutes important points in Nellie Connally's statements about the event and makes me question its reliability.

" Once we have contradictory testimony, it seems unlikely that we can draw much from these statements about when he said it."

I couldn't disagree more. We have video evidence by which we can test each statement, which is, in fact, what I have been doing.

"But both of them felt that he fell back onto Nellie almost immediately after being shot. That would be very inconsistent with him being shot at frame 223 because he did his full turn around after that and before he fell back on his wife"

Again, I completely disagree. In the clip below focus on JBC. He has a brief glance to his left then turns to his right, apparently looking at the people lining the streets. In general he seems calm and composed. He stays in this position as he passes behind the Stemmons sign. When he emerges from behind the sign he is in exactly the same position looking calm and composed:



A split second later he is thrashing around, shouting "No, no, no" as he twists in his seat, then immediately collapses into Mrs Connally's lap:



For me it's really clear when JBC is hit. It's not a question of "seeing what i want to see" to support a pre-existing opinion. it's a question of "seeing what I really do see" which is informing my opinion.

"That still leaves the possibility that he was shot while turning back after saying no no no."

This is an example of a point easily refuted by the video evidence. Looking at the clip above it is clear that at no point after twisting in his seat does JBC offer his back up for a shot from the TSBD. From the moment he twists round until he falls in Nellie's lap his back is turned in a position as to make such a shot impossible. This is not a matter of opinion.
The question of this thread is, basically, "Was this the first of the three shots assumed to be from the TSBD?"

[Dan O'meara]

Connaly's wound occured at Z312, while he was lying ( no pun intended) down across the jump seats.

To suggest Connally was shot in the back whilst lying in Mrs Connally's lap is beyond bizarre.
And I note you have failed to provide the explanation as to how Mr West knew the timing of the shots that allowed him to determine the points of impact.