On The Trail Of Delusion

[Jon Banks]

And your proof is what? And what exactly is an "intelligence apparatus"?

Clay Shaw, the man Garrison charged with conspiracy in the JFK murder, testified under oath "No, I have not" to the question "Mr. Shaw, have you ever worked for the Central Intelligence Agency?" The truth of this answer may depend on the meaning of the word "work." It was later revealed that Shaw had been an informant to the CIA's Domestic Contacts Service during the period 1948 to 1956. More interestingly, a document surfaced which seemed to imply that Shaw was cleared for "Project QK/ENCHANT." Other persons cleared for this project include J. Munroe Sullivan, Shaw's "alibi," Peter Maheu (son of Robert), and no less than CIA officer E. Howard Hunt. The nature of this project is still classified; what little information there is suggests that those cleared for the project may possibly have been "unwitting," and that it may have been related to gathering information from businessmen. Certainly there is no indication it was assassination-related. Author Bill Davy (Let Justice Be Done) also uncovered a CIA memo which appears to confirm Shaw's use of the alias "Clay Bertrand," which was central to the trial.

Whether Shaw had any deeper relationship with the Agency, perhaps related to the International Trade Mart he was Director of, remains unsubstantiated though disputed. Certainly the CIA was worried about his prosecution - CIA Director Helms' assistant Victor Marchetti revealed in the 1975 that Helms held meetings where he would ask "are we giving them all the help we can?" CounterIntelligence officer Ray Rocca held meetings on 20 Sep 1967 and 26 Sep 1967, and incorrectly predicted that "Garrison would indeed obtain a conviction of Shaw" (Shaw was acquitted after an hour of deliberation). The Agency also produced a series of 9 numbered memos tracking the Garrison investigation (see sidebar), and circulated to station chiefs a guidebook for defending the Warren Report, with specific strategies for refuting the critics.

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/The_CIA_and_the_JFK_Assassination.html

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Forerunner of Domestic Contact Service/OSINT:

This function, run by the Domestic Contact Service (also called the Domestic Contact Division) of the CIA, was legal, as it did not violate the CIA prohibitions of police power or spying on Americans. It was a voluntary debriefing of Americans with useful information. It is now considered part of Open Source Intelligence OSINT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_the_United_States


The evidence that Shaw was an intelligence asset is overwhelming. However, it doesn't mean he was involved with the Kennedy assassination.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

A gay person is the last person the CIA would chose as one of its agents. It’s too easy to turn them by threatening to expose them.

A gay person is the most logical person for Jim Garrison to choose to prosecute with a bogus case. Such a person cannot present any character witnesses because they may be asked, by the DA, under oath, if they know anything about the defendant being a homosexual. A disaster for the defense given the attitude of the public in the 1960’s towards gays. The people that the defense can call upon to testify is greatly restricted.

All true but that's assuming that the CIA knew Shaw was gay. I'm not sure that, in particular during the late 1940s and 1950s, that it was known to any degree. If you read Donald Carpenter's book on Shaw, "Man of a Million Fragments", you'll see that some close friends of Shaw's, especially women, knew he was gay but some others, also close, were surprised to learn about it. And again, it seems that during that 1950s period that Shaw was more discreet about his personal life. It was only during the 1960s that he was more open about it.  At least that's the view I got from the book.

And remember that Shaw served with distinction in the Army during WWII. So it was kept secret at least during that period.

Question: Wouldn't there be some indication in a CIA file about this? Such as, "We'd like to use Shaw more but his homosexuality makes it risky"? I'm not aware that the CIA documented such a matter.

[Fred Litwin]

Again, all you have is that Clay Shaw was a domestic contact of the CIA from 1948-1956. That's it. Ike 150,000 other businessmen, he
discussed what he knew about international trade. QK/ENCHANT was not an operational project - it was an unwitting clearance for
other people to use Shaw for information. It was J. Montroe Sullivan who was cleared for that. Again, nothing operational.

fred

[Jon Banks]

Again, all you have is that Clay Shaw was a domestic contact of the CIA from 1948-1956. That's it. Ike 150,000 other businessmen, he
discussed what he knew about international trade. QK/ENCHANT was not an operational project - it was an unwitting clearance for
other people to use Shaw for information. It was J. Montroe Sullivan who was cleared for that. Again, nothing operational.

fred

Yes, that makes Shaw part of the intelligence apparatus.

We don't know for certain that his relationship with the intelligence community ended in 1956 (maybe we'll learn more about that in the future). Often times its a revolving door type of relationship. But there's no denying that he was part of the CIA's network of civilian informants.

Also, the CIA expressed a serious interest in the Clay Shaw trial, which is another Tell...

[Fred Litwin]

We do know that his involvement ended in 1956.

The CIA expressed an interest in Garrison because he was accusing them of a variety of crimes. I'd be interested too. But
they didn't do anything about it. In fact, they were asked by help by Shaw's defense team, and they said no.

fred

[Jon Banks]

We do know that his involvement ended in 1956.

The CIA expressed an interest in Garrison because he was accusing them of a variety of crimes. I'd be interested too. But
they didn't do anything about it. In fact, they were asked by help by Shaw's defense team, and they said no.

fred

The CIA still has secret files on Garrison and the Clay Shaw trial. Nothing suspicious about that. 

[Fred Litwin]

No they don't.  But if you have some evidence that they do, then post it.

fred

[Jon Banks]

No they don't.  But if you have some evidence that they do, then post it.

fred

The CIA retains two secret files on New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison, the crusading prosecutor who inspired Oliver Stone’s hit movie “JFK.”

The files–whose existence was first reported by JFK Facts- are among the 3,600 secret U.S. government records related to JFK’s assassination that are scheduled to be released in October 2017.

https://jfkfacts.org/the-cia-is-hiding-two-secret-files-on-jim-garrison-the-prosecutor-celebrated-in-the-jfk-movie/